Personal and Social

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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RWStanding
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Personal and Social

Post by RWStanding » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:37 am

Personal and Social
There is a clear impression, especially in religion, that ethics is all personal and one to one. As if everyone being nice to each other is the fount and sum of ethics. But this also assumes there is no really anything called society, merely 'politics' and authority. In reality almost all relationships have a social aspect, far more important than personal taste. We even have philosophical opinions that, for instance, a gay relationship is entirely a matter for those directly involved. And with migration there is the entirely obvious attitude that as Good Samaritans we have a duty to help, we being an aggregate of individuals. In fact society must be more than the sum of its parts, other than for extreme anarchists. Democracy is about providing a voice for society, and it is unfortunate that the best we can do is parliament and government. Anything that affects two people is certain to have its effect on others and the young generation - and that means on society.

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Harbal
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Re: Personal and Social

Post by Harbal » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:48 am

RWStanding wrote: There is a clear impression, especially in religion, that ethics is all personal and one to one. As if everyone being nice to each other is the fount and sum of ethics.
When you lose sight of the individual, pragmatism tends to predominate and it becomes about averages and statistics where people who don't exactly fit a predetermined set of criteria get left out. Maybe this is one reason why communism never seems to work.
But this also assumes there is no really anything called society, merely 'politics' and authority.

I would say the opposite.
In reality almost all relationships have a social aspect,
So now you're saying it doesn't assume "there is not really anything called society"? :?
We even have philosophical opinions that, for instance, a gay relationship is entirely a matter for those directly involved.
If society doesn't provide us with a safe environment in which we can practice our preferred lifestyle isn't it falling short of one of it's main purposes? Isn't tolerating differences that may not be to our own particular taste part and parcel of social living? Obviously, society needs rules in order to work but it should make the effort to distinguish between what is genuinely harmful and what is purely a matter of perception.
And with migration there is the entirely obvious attitude that as Good Samaritans we have a duty to help,
This is something that is dealt with almost exclusively on a societal -rather than individual- level and is a glaring example of something society seems to be incapable of making a success of.
Democracy is about providing a voice for society, and it is unfortunate that the best we can do is parliament and government.
In the modern world all societies consist of far too many individuals to function in anything approaching an ideal way. For the vast majority, being part of society amounts to a disappointing compromise.
Anything that affects two people is certain to have its effect on others and the young generation - and that means on society.
Everything effects somebody, how can you eliminate effects?

osgart
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Re: Personal and Social

Post by osgart » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:00 am

there must be universal moral truths that go for all beings regardless of beliefs and convictions. such as all men are created equal allows people to live as they choose so long as they obey the laws of human rights.
America is full of people that oppress. And yet they know deep down that the statement all men are created equal causes their freedom and prosperity.
I know they don't all end up equal. but we don't need to make mankind are God and judge. The meanings of the laws of human rights must have authority over all humans. otherwise we are subject to people making God's of themselves. I myself am extremely grateful for the Constitution. because no one is above the law.

Walker
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Re: Personal and Social

Post by Walker » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:19 am

osgart wrote:there must be universal moral truths that go for all beings regardless of beliefs and convictions. such as all men are created equal allows people to live as they choose so long as they obey the laws of human rights.
America is full of people that oppress. And yet they know deep down that the statement all men are created equal causes their freedom and prosperity.
I know they don't all end up equal. but we don't need to make mankind are God and judge. The meanings of the laws of human rights must have authority over all humans. otherwise we are subject to people making God's of themselves. I myself am extremely grateful for the Constitution. because no one is above the law.
there must be universal moral truths that go for all beings regardless of beliefs and convictions. such as all men are created equal allows people to live as they choose so long as they obey the laws of human rights.
- Pretty much, although slightly misleading. Choosing don’t pick no cotton, ‘specially if one is fingerless.

America is full of people that oppress.
- As a matter of personality, not public policy.
- So is planet earth full of people that oppress.
- It’s called Oppression Without Borders

And yet they know deep down that the statement all men are created equal causes their freedom and prosperity.
- If they know that, then why oppress?

I know they don't all end up equal.
- Not everyone can dunk.

but we don't need to make mankind our God and judge.
- That’s correct. However, since one will still be judged and since life goes on, one will learn the consequences of being judged according to capacity to learn.

The meanings of the laws of human rights must have authority over all humans.
- True, but folks can’t always see the natural and choiceless consequences or responsibilities that accompany natural human rights, thus do not understand the actual, pragmatic meaning of cause and effect.

otherwise we are subject to people making God's of themselves.
- Anyone can do that, but like outcomes, not all kingdoms are equal.

I myself am extremely grateful for the Constitution.
- Then you must know of alternative forms of governance, and their implications upon human rights.

because no one is above the law.
- No one is above a law that is in accord with natural human rights, and uncorrupted in practice.

osgart
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Re: Personal and Social

Post by osgart » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:50 am

You might get lucky once in a hundred times to get a benevolent king but that never lasts.

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