Right track/ wrong track

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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prof
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Right track/ wrong track

Post by prof »

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Takers of surveys and pollsters often ask citizens “Is the country on the right track?” [Why they do this is not my concern here at present.]

Awareness of this led me to reflect: When are individuals, or countries, on the right track?

As I thought about it, I asked myself: What would my Ethics theory suggest as responses to this query? Considering that Ethics is the kind of discipline where the practice of it is worth far more to us than the theory of it - where ethics applied in life is superior to ethics on paper -the following set of values (personal ideals) to not only advocate but also to live for, and be devoted to, is the result I came up with:

We are on the right track when we look for ways to be more:

democratic
decentralized
responsible
empowering of the powerless
respectful of one another
honest
open and transparent
authentic rather than hypocritical
of good will
cooperative
helpful toward the less fortunate
generous
loving
healthy
peaceful.


Do you agree?


I also came to the conclusion that people like to have confirmation that they actually are on the right track - and that feedback at teach step along the way is a desideratum.

Your views?
Last edited by prof on Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Obvious Leo
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Re: Right track/wtong track

Post by Obvious Leo »

How would you set about measuring these motherhood values? Without a useful metric for such things your "right track" is of little practical social value.
prof
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Re: Right track/wtong track

Post by prof »

The question is, do you agree with these values?

And if you do, are you living by them? Are you mentoring others in them? Are you voting only for candidates who share these values? Are you volunteering your time and energy toward implementing these values to any degree?


Let's take Peace as an example.
If there were more peace in the world, you'd know it without requiring an exact measurement of it. The issue - from the point of view of Applied Ethics as as practice relevant to a life well-lived -is: are you working to make it more of a viable possibility? There are nonprofit organizations one could cooperate with that every day teach about world peace, and how to get it. See the resources available at this link: http://worldwithoutwar.com/

in the original post, note the 4th value listed. There the concept referred to is empowering the powerless, empowering the miserable and destitute, from the 'bottom up' rather than waiting for something, some benefit or opportunity, to trickle down on them. The "Trickle-Down Economy" is to be rejected as counterproductive for the majority of the citizens. For us, the common people, it has NOT been helpful :!:

What say you?

Comments?
Last edited by prof on Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Obvious Leo
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Re: Right track/wtong track

Post by Obvious Leo »

prof wrote:The question is, do you agree with these values?
No it isn't. The question is if asking people if they agree with the idea of world peace is a worthy question to ask of an adult in a philosophy forum. The same principle applies to all the rest of your fortune cookie values.
prof
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Re: Right track/wtong track

Post by prof »

8) The Greeks had a word for it :!: :!:

Philotimo [pronounced phil-`lot-tee-moe] is a concept that permeates Greek culture.

It connotes: generosity, good will, honesty, deep and wide respectfulness, living honorably. It is taught by mothers to their children. {Admittedly some teachers educate more effectively than others .}

Too bad we, in the USA, aren't taught such a concept in our early formative years. Would we then in college need to study ethical theory??? :wink: :)

For those who are here to study and do philosophy, see:
ETHICS: A College Course -
http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/ ... Course.pdf

or see: BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://bg.ht/nLJfi

In the former selection it is explained in some detail how and why: the meaning is the measure. The meaning of the relevant concept serves as the yardstick to measure what is purported to be an instance of moral value. This encourages us to be more-and-ever-more exact in our moral judgments and our moral expressions when we communicate about moral matters with someone else, whether it is with a fellow philosopher or with a lay-person to Philosophy. The more specific and concrete our referents, and the more exact and precise our communication, the more we are comprehending the points made.

The latter document cited is noteworthy for its many diverse applications of the theory to issues of relevance to the ethical life. It includes a brief critique of Hobbes, and it exposes many and various moral truths. Leo, you will find it to be of interest - if you study it patiently.
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hajrafradi
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Re: Right track/ wrong track

Post by hajrafradi »

The question is an imperative to not become more decentralized, goodwilled, generous, democratic, etc. etc. It is not required of the people to analyze whether today we are more generous and democratic than we were yesterday. This is important to note.

The actual question is,

"We are ( or "Are we...") on the right track when we look for ways to be more" generous, etc.("?")

So the actual requirement or imperative is to look for ways to be more of (whatever).

The action required is to look for ways.

These ways don't need to be more, or new, or previously inexistent. We don't even need to practice walking on these ways, or acting out the ways; we just need to look for them. What's essentially required of us is to look for ways. Finding them is irrelevant. What me must do, is just to look. That's what the imperative states. Do we look for these?

This, in and by itself, in my opinion is a treasure hunt or something resembling an Easter egg hunt. We look for ways. We don't even need to find them, to satisfy the imperative; we need to look, and that's all that's required.

Maybe I am too literal. I am autistic, all right, and that does not make me lesser or special; all great philosophers, each and every one of them, in my opinion were autistic geeks. Very clever people, incredibly intelligent, but completely detached from the rest of society by their being autistic (highly functioning ones). If they had computers, they would have played Pacman and other games, and never would have delved into the realm of thoughts they did.

Anyhow, I am literal; whether it's my autism or something else that compels me to be so, it does not matter. What's important to me, is that all survey writers are confused people who use fuzzy language because they don't know better. Maybe the survey did not want us to simply look for ways, but to find them as well, and practice them, too. But then, for crying out loud, why don't they ask that? I am not into guessing people's thoughts. I assume people say what they mean and they mean what they say.

This is the EXACT reason why I am a pauper and a general reject in society. I don't speak humanese. We have this wonderful, excellent tool to transfer ideas and knowledge, and people misuse it, and blame me (particularly a personal complaint, I apologize for not being general enough) for not understanding their intention which they did not actually communicate at all.

I find the inner workings and outer representation of this entire "humanity" thing utterly unfair to me.
prof
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Re: Right track/wtong track

Post by prof »

prof wrote:8) The Greeks had a word for it :!: :!:

Philotimo [pronounced phil-`lot-tee-moe] is a concept that permeates Greek culture.

It connotes: generosity, good will, honesty, deep and wide respectfulness, living honorably. It is taught by mothers to their children. {Admittedly some teachers educate more effectively than others .}
:arrow: Since I posted the above I have done further empirical research, and have learned that packed into that one word are even more meanings. Included are the concepts: caring, sensitivity to the needs of others, and consideration.

This one word connotes so much of what is meant by Ethics :!: :D
....omitted {so far} seem to be the ideas of cooperation and collaboration on worthwhile goals. And, that we all have a moral obligation to be happy (as well as good.)

Now, after I interview people raised in Greece as to what the word means to them, I add the further inquiry: Did you teach it to your children? The responses are so interesting! 8)


Comments? Additional data? Etc.?
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hajrafradi
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Re: Right track/ wrong track

Post by hajrafradi »

Interesting, that Philotimo would have so many meanings at the same time and in the same respect. English, for instance, has many words that mean more than the count of ten or twelve that Philotimo has; but each of these meanings of the same phoneme combination mean things separately from each other. For instance, the English word "set" means a group of dishes, or the defeat of a champion. But not both at the same time.

Philotimo, on the other hand, has a dozen or so meanings, all at once.

Is that healthy? I mean linguistically, not biologically-psychologically. Is it useful for one word to mean so many things at once? Can you use that word in a sentence? "I enjoy philotimo." "Philotimo is nice to practice." "Gimme some philotimo, mon!" "Philo-team, o... or is it a single philosopher?"
prof
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Re: Right track/ wrong track

Post by prof »

Greetings,

With the help of You Tube on this very concept I have learned of even more meanings packed into this word. Here is the latest:

Philotimo is a sense of right and wrong, and a duty to do what is right.

It includes good will, a sensitivity to the needs of others, showing consideration, a sense of responsibility, caring, and having moral courage. It directs one to think of the less-fortunate; to live for something larger than oneself.

It denotes some imperatives also: Do not bring dishonor on your community! When faced with evil, choose the good :!: Be compassionate! Avoid selfishness: go beyond your immediate personal desires and thus live with personal honor!! Be truthful and sincere! Aim for reciprocity in your interactions! Give, without expecting a return, in a spirit of generosity!



[And this is how it's used in a sentence.]

With regard to any policy, or possibly-questionable course of action, ask: " Where is the philotimo in that?"

And - furthermore - it has its own enforcing mechanism:
When parents teach it to their children they add ..."If you violate philotimo, you disgrace your family!!!!"

So the concept includes its own sanctions for moral digression.


Would that we had a single concept like that in the English tongue :!: :!: :) Wouldn't that be cool?!
Let's absorb it into English. {p.s., I, who propose this, am not a Greek.}

Along that line of thinking ....maybe the word philotimo - as is - ought to be taught in college and university Ethics courses.
Would that be an improvement?
Would academic Ethics then be on "the right track"?
prof
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Re: Right track/ wrong track

Post by prof »

Thales, a philosopher living in ancient Greece, when it had city-states, advocated philotimo.

The concept was transmitted through the ages, and survived, through the Byzantine era in Greek history, down through to modern Greece culture today :!:

Comments?
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hajrafradi
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Re: Right track/ wrong track

Post by hajrafradi »

prof wrote:Thales, a philosopher living in ancient Greece, when it had city-states, advocated philotimo.

The concept was transmitted through the ages, and survived, through the Byzantine era in Greek history, down through to modern Greece culture today :!:

Comments?
I am not an expert on philotimo. Why has the concept been isolated to single country, where it had to be ADVOCATED while it's believed to be such a good idea? If an idea is good, it normally does not have to be advocated, it grows on its own in general acceptance by the populous.

What I mean is that you don't have to advocate chocolate ice cream with a cherry on top, or sex, but you do have to heavily advocate walking through the desert carrying heavy weights and killing people en route before you get anyone to sign up.

If philotimo were such a good idea, why does it need advocation, in the first place, and why has nobody in the current civilization heard about it?

Is philotimo against human nature? If it is not against human nature, why it needs to be advocated, as if anything that naturally gets rejected by the people? Is it a tool of manipulating others to do your bidding? Is it a tool which, when employed by society, makes that society weaker, and susceptible to damage from within or from without? Is it even an earnest, honest tool, when you examine its elementary discipline and claims? Is it a workable tool?

-------------------

In my years I learned that when people advocate honesty, selflessness, lack of greed, they mean exclusively for OTHERs to practice those qualities and make them their own. Save for the present company, I mean, save for a handful of well-meaning, mildly leftist, benevolent (without costs involved) philosopher-kinds.
prof
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Re: Right track/ wrong track

Post by prof »

OOPS!

I misspoke when I used the word 'advocated.'

I should have said: Thales referred to the concept.

In a quote attributed to Thales I noticed that he mentioned "philotimo."

Currently, the notion of philotimo permeates Greek culture.

What do readers think of the idea that this concept be introduced to the primary schools, as part of the curriculum; and/or that it becomes a new word in the English language?

I am opposed to moralism. What I write (about Ethics) I have applied in my own life, and in that way I found it to be useful. The research findings were incorporated into a personal program for self-growth. My friends think it made for an improvement.


Your views ...on the topic of this thread ... are most welcome.
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