Philosophy Now Forum

Just an interesting article on unions and socialisms effect.

http://economics.org.au/2010/09/why-the ... hong-kong/

Bill you have no idea what you worship.

According to the article "in 1991 unemployment in Hong Kong was 1.5%; now it’s around 7.7%". Very handy figures to quote if you want to bash unions and minimum wage legislation (minimum wage legislation that wasn't actually in place during the time he's writing about anyway but there you go).

However, according to tradingeconomics.com "The unemployment rate in Hong Kong was last reported at 4.60 percent in June of 2010. From 1981 until 2010, Hong Kong's Unemployment Rate averaged 3.77 percent reaching an historical high of 8.60 percent in June of 2003 and a record low of 1.00 percent in July of 1989."

Sure, it was low around the time the author conveniently chooses to cite but you only need to go back a few years before that to find a rate higher than the current rate of 4.6% (it was 5.3% in 1983). There are also other factors at play so picking the ones the author has a beef with and presenting them as the cause of increased unemployment doesn't cut it.

Don't know about Bill, but I have a pretty good idea of what you worship, Wootah. Your worship the free market. Why not view organized labour as just another market force? A global free market needs a global free labour movement to function properly. You are a big believer in freedom. A minimum wage imposed by the government is no ideal solution. If you embrace the freedom of global corporations and the freedom of global organized labour, including the right to global sympathy actions, then employers and employees could probably negotiate reasonable wages and conditions better than those imposed by government.

On the other hand, libertarians are usually more concerned about the freedom of money than the freedom of people. Who rules the free market that you worship, by tha way? Oh, yes, a diety known as Mammon, the root of all evil, no less...

No one is saying bad people can do bad things. Chaining all people is not the solution.

Its not quite just another market force.

In my heck of the woods, being a member of a union can be a job requirement. When on strike, unions are de facto allowed to prevent or at least delay people from going to the place where they would be working.

It would be like one grocery store physically blocking access to a competitor.

Note that this is not an argument against unions, per se - but if you are going to defend them, you should not present a distorted picture of what they are. Legislation supporting unions is an imposition on the free market - like minimum wage, safety laws, etc.

I think unions can be seen as a market force in the same way a pollution supervisory organisation can be seen as one. It's about generating good standards that give benefit to all parties, both the employer and the employee, the manufacturers and the consumers while preserving the environment!

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http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishans ... creeps-in/

Woota, is this just going to become a thread where you link to various right wing blogs?

I could do that. I use to have a thread to good articles. I really think I should revive it. Sometimes I do wish that others if they found something worth sharing did so. Even with my vast powers I can't find everything worth reading on the Internet. But I am not detecting any thanks.

Of course not. No market force is just like any other market force. I'm not too fond of viewing the world in market terms myself, but it's possible. Like any worldview, those who use it often define things to suit their own goals, though. "The Market" can be as ill defined and misused as "God".

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From hour to hour, from day to day, my life overflows with praise and gratitude.
You create beauty out of the dust of our fallen natures. Out of the ashes of our failures you bring forth meaning and purpose.
Our emptiness becomes a vessel of your fullness, our spiritual poverty the basis for your eternal grace.
How great and glorious you are Organized Labor.

From all that dwell below the skies let Organized Labor’s praise arise; Alleluia! Alleluia!
Let the redeemer’s name be sung through every land, by every tongue.
Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!

Eternal are your mercies, Organized Labor; your truth stands ever high and broad: Alleluia! Alleluia!
Your praise shall sound from shore to shore till suns rise and set no more.
Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!



When the grace of Organized Labor flows over me I feel confident and whole, I become confident and whole.

Why then, should I be cautious of what I believe?


I believe in the inherent good of Organized Labor.
I believe in the inherent good of Organized Labor.
I believe in the inherent good of Organized Labor.
I believe in the inherent good of Organized Labor.


Wootah, if that’s the shack you want to live in, I wish not to persuade you out of it.
As in life, philosophy, and religion, it is best not to be caught between two chairs.
As you have chosen yours, I hope you continue to be happy.
For there are so many rising people I meet who actually are genuinely trying to improve their life and working hard to infuse the concepts and contracts of Organized Labor into their lives. The words I use may ring true to them and they will be more confident to follow their heart in a truly brave, noble, and worthwhile journey.



Grace is flowing like a river, flowing out from you and me, flowing out into the desert, setting all the captives free.
Believe in the inherent good of Organized Labor even before you are given eyes…the eyes to see.





Emergence of the world’s first Meta-religion

Basically religions are a blueprint for living, a blueprint on how to treat fellow human beings. Weather you believe or follow the Christian Ten Commandments, the Islamic Qur’an, the works of the Hindu Sanskrit, The Middle Way of Buddhism, The Three Pillars of Sikhism or The Torah of Judaism, all major religions outline a structure of living; a structure of relating to fellow human beings.

A belief in a god or gods is not a religion. Religions add visions of purpose, ideals, behavioral criteria, rewards, punishments, and much more, to their core belief.

Throughout history religions have served as a necessary moral umbrella as sort of a universal standard of behavior. Religions, organized religions have progressed as mankind has progressed in his adaptation of his mode of commerce and necessity of development of language. With the development of travel and communication man’s increasing religions have been carried across continents. Religions, in the expansion of commerce have expanded with mankind in his interaction with an increasingly widening group of other individuals. Now mankind is truly connected on a world wide level. Commerce, in a global marketplace demands an equally world wide religion a new belief in a logical meta-religion.

Religions don’t provide a scientific, logical explanation of creation they do present the concept of a belief. The one thing that makes all great religions great is also the one thing that makes religions inflexible. That one thing is belief. Belief is not logical. Belief in a certain creator fills a necessary need within most of us. Religious belief is something that is internal, something that is personal. Belief in a mythical creator that has been dead for a hundreds or thousands of years can be comforting and relieves us from a lot of personal decision making but belief cannot logically guide us through important decisions that a mythical God or savior was never exposed to thus could never address.

Modern man, out of necessity, needs to become more like Gods. We need to become godlike ourselves based upon a modern, relevant, compassionate model that will speak to us as citizens of the world. We must have a global vision. Our next spiritual leader will speak to man as a citizen of the globe. In this respect, commerce, the marketplace, demands that we have our eyes wide open. We need to logically support organizations that support the creation of heaven on earth.

Leaders who are capable of understanding and expressing universal relationships in the face of a one world economy will deliver the benediction of humanity’s new universal spiritual greatness. These leaders will emerge, and in fact must emerge, from the necessary protective umbrella and nourishing ethical richness of Organized Labor.

Today there are over 6 billion people on earth, of that 20% of them don’t believe in any God, but they do work. They believe in their work, in the goodness of work. They believe in themselves. If people could recognize and verbalize a moral meaning in their every moment of work, a holy connection would immediately become a reality this connection is possible through the miracle of a quantum leap in civilization, the miracle of Organized Labor. Studies show that most people have a favorable reaction towards Organized Labor and, when asked, most people would join a union. The majority of people, whether on the side of capital or labor believe in the holy matrimony of the benefits of Organized Labor.


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Thanks.