Philosophy Now Forum

?

for example, who is more "guilty".. a child who could never really get math, or a teacher who would publicly ridicule the child making him/her feel emotionally lower than shit because he/she couldn't get math?

p.s., to me anyways, i find "morality" / & "reason" an intellectual thing as well.

thanks:)

"Deficiencies" (as 'guilt'), are in the ego/eye of the beholder.
It's all apples and oranges.

a further more detailed example (i am not talking to myself, i just keep thinking of something more to add to clarify my question better)

a teacher publicly in class humiliates a child with less ability to perform a specific lets say math question sufficiently. and you happen to be walking by and withness it. you find her to actually be the "freaking idiot". you want to punish her, for whats she's done. for what you find to be her grand stupidity

but would punishing her for her grand stupidity be the same thing as her punishing the child for the inability to understand math?

thanks:)

hi nameless, we seem to have posted at the same time, i just added a more detailed example, if after reading my last post, do you still feel the same way?

if so, would you just walk on by the child being harrassed by the teacher i described, since to you its all 'apples & oranges'?

thanks:) (hope your having a nice easter btw, if you celebrate it that is, either way, hope your having a nice day either way)

Hi b2b,
In answer to your first post, I'd say the child has nothing to be guilty about, and the teacher should be looking for career assistance or a new profession. As whilst it may be true than many just don't get some things, ridicule is not the solution. So yes they are 'guilty' in a very real sense.

Your revision makes it different for me; so I think it would make it the same if you chose to use the same technique as the teacher upon the teacher and you'd be 'guilty' too.

p.s.
Yes I'd walk-past, straight to the head's office to complain.

'Judgements' are egoically based. We 'judge' that of which we have no vision beyond our noses.


Perhaps it is that belittling, that frustration, that embarassment that impells that child to works of genius in the future? There is no growth without pain.


Not necessarily, it depends on Perspective.


Shall I assume that when you say 'you" that you are referring to yourself?
That surely is not 'me'.


I can surely understand the sentiment, though.


At foundational levels there is no difference. Both are born from ignorance and emotion, a 'painful' combination!
Growth is painful, as are blessings. Which would you remove to remove the 'pain'? 'Pain' isn't a 'bad' thing, it just hurts. And passes, leaving us with the fruit of the 'growth' and the 'blessings'.

"Compassion means that we recognize their need for their present condition, and give them our love and understanding."

Catch me at the right moment displaying my ignorance, and you might well see me stoping the pain, as I have done before.

'The growth of the soul in man is as that of a pearl in an oyster, both being caused by irritation (pain! -n)." - Plato

Going to the heads office may seem to the teacher like a punishment, but it is not. They may suffer negative consequences, but we have to ensure the safety of children in their care.

There was a case recently where a pupil was having an asthma attack and informed their teacher. The teacher told them to wait outside and irritatedly turned away fellow pupils and the child's older brother when they implored her for help.

The boy later died on his way to hospital.

As for out and out attempting to humiliate the teacher, I am unsure but I do not think there is anything wrong with that.

Imposing on those who impose on others is not itself an imposition; it is a reduction of the overall imposition in the system.

An acquaintance told me once that it might be wise to not listen to what I say. He said that was what he did. It appears that you have mastered the technique. (listen to what you just said!)

*__-

Not sure of the point of this? As it tells me a few things, the teacher may not have been properly trained in the policies and procedures of the school(which I think will be the official version), the reality, for me, is that it describes a teacher who is inundated with pupils who know their 'rites' and one of them is 'rspec' and have no qualms about manipulating them in the knowledge of the non-respect for the authority of teachers now-a-days. As such, the 'cry-wolf' can be applied to the innocent to tragic effect.

What many appear to ignore in the UK is that the bulk of the teachers entering the schools with the most socially-dysfunctional children, who are unable to benefit from a, now, purely academic-based comprehensive system, are not much more than 7-8 years older than their pupils!? And the 'old' ones are leaving in droves as they did not sign-up to be social-workers and psychologists. Add that to the growing social dysfunction towards education per se, and I think this country has problems. Still the children of, and the, migrants and immigrants appear to not have this problem, so maybe all will be well.
Very 'pacifist'?

The teacher said of the event that she was in meetings and was 'in after-school mode', that it was all very regrettable, and that if it happened again she would have acted differently.

I am 100% certain that the misbehaviour of a few pupils is absolutely an excuse for fatal negligence.



Very much so.

I am not against the use of non-violent force for the prevention or cessation of violence.
Nor am I against using coercion to force a cessation in coercion.
It is perfectly liberal to show intolerance to intolerance (without escalation).

hi, i'm not sure that career assistance or a new profession would help this person? it's possible i guess, but... it seems to be something deeply engrained into who they really are, but you never know.

i don't believe ridicule is the solution either, overall, my main conundrum over this scenerio, is if you look closely who is the "larger idiot" and if you could look at this person as 'disabled' in a sort of way also, etc.. yet of course, unlike nameless, i would definitly step in, although i understand where nameless is coming from, after alot of things, i still won't take that road.

i'm glad you'd walk straight to the head office to complain, that sometimes helps too.. and sometimes it doesn't.

but still, do you believe "intellectual "deficiencies" are the same as "moral" "deficiencies"?

thanks

You don't, that's why its worth making the systems that people work within, philosophically and logically sensible.
We all take the road of 'ignoring' in this life. You'd be mental if you didn't. It's, pick your fights where you think your 'intelligence' can win a result, is the game in the kind of society we appear to be living within.
Depends upon how you are 'complaining', my take as a 'well-educated' parent of a child at the school(I assume that's why I'm there? Or am I a teacher in this situation?), is that the 'head' is about to hear how they are responsible for this teachers behaviour, as my kid is at this school. If they aren't, they they are about to hear the same thing but in a more expressive manner even if I lose my 'job'.
This is too 'big' a question for me b2b. What is an 'intellectual deficiency'? What are 'moral deficiencies'(although I think I know what you mean here, as for me you are describing the 'problem' of being a moral creature who's being told that the morals they were told about, that you still hold, are wrong?