Race versus culture

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Londoner
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Londoner » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:12 pm

dorothea wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:56 pm
When you've sat side by side with people whose families and children have been destroyed in front of their eyes by bestial soldiers, and felt the pure evil of it, you don't have much patience with apologists for the supremacist ideology that is at the root of it. Good bye. I hope you'll see the light.
You are promoting the same hatred as they are; you and they are two sides of the same coin.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:57 pm

dorothea wrote:... Philosophical and ethical content is zero and this kind of futile argument leads nowhere. ...
You are mistaken, there is philosophical content in asking you what business is it of ours to interfere in the practices of others, there is also moral content about interfering in the practices of others.
More than 50 states, Muslim ruled, have declared war on western values, values of equality and tolerance which are absolutely superior to anything they have to offer, and all of the Muslims killed on a daily basis are the victims of Muslim sectarian hate. ...
I don't disagree that our values are to be lauded but seem to remember that they were founded upon much killing and sectarian hate. I also wonder if others should be allowed to find their own path to the values they cherish.
(Anyone who really cares about humanity would be directing their attention elsewhere: for example, do you know what has happened to 40,000 Kurds living in a Turkish suburb that was flattened by Turkish tanks and artillery a while back? Have you seen the media fuss? No. There hasn't been one. Apparently the BBC et al think the harmless buffoon of a US president is the only threat to civilisation.)
Has it crossed your mind that there might be other civilizations? Ones that don't wish to live your way?

What would this 'caring about humanity' entail if you had the power to change things?

By the by, these western values have killed a couple of million people in the last few decades.
I've worked face to face with survivors of these atrocities and perhaps that's the chasmic gulf between us. When you've sat side by side with people whose families and children have been destroyed in front of their eyes by bestial soldiers, and felt the pure evil of it, you don't have much patience with apologists for the supremacist ideology that is at the root of it. Good bye. I hope you'll see the light.
I have no time for it but wonder why its our job to interfere when no-one did when we were in the same position and we still got here.
Last edited by Arising_uk on Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Belinda
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Belinda » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:19 am

I don't understand how Arising_uk thinks it's wrong to interfere. There is a lot of suffering that needs attention . I think that we should try to save others from human rights abuses whichever country they live in. The ethic is the strong should help the weak.

tbieter
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by tbieter » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:45 pm

Seleucus wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:16 pm
Do you stand with the Rohingya because they are an Indo-European people resisting an onslaught of Orientals? Or do you reject them because they have fallen to the Semitic cult, Islam? Do you stand with the Uyghurs because they are arguably of Caucasian race, a remnant of the ancient Tocharians, or turn against them because they too fell in with the cult of Islam? Are you warmer towards Filipinos because they are Christians despite that they are racially Austronesian? Should we support the Kurds because they are Aryan people? Should we extend special aid to the Kalasha of Kafiristan, possibly the descendants of the Greek and Macedonian soldiers of Alexander? Iraq was a Roman province for a thousand years, oughtn't it to be rescued from the Arabs? On the other hand, the Semitic people are the other branch of the Caucasian family and ought to therefore be embraced despite having fallen I subscribe to the ethic that is founded on the parable of the Good Samaritan.under the cult of Islam. What do you think? Would you accept someone who is the same race but of an alien culture over someone who is another race but shares your language and religious beliefs? The truth is of course that language, race, and religion tend to align, but in cases where they don't?

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Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:29 am

Belinda wrote:I don't understand how Arising_uk thinks it's wrong to interfere. ...
Depends what you mean by "interfere"?
There is a lot of suffering that needs attention. ...
And how will you do this?
I think that we should try to save others from human rights abuses whichever country they live in. ...
Why? Do you think someone should have stepped in and stopped the Americans?
The ethic is the strong should help the weak.
Well it's a nice thought but how about the weak learn to help themselves otherwise they're always going to be weak?

Belinda
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Belinda » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:50 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:29 am
Belinda wrote:I don't understand how Arising_uk thinks it's wrong to interfere. ...
Depends what you mean by "interfere"?
There is a lot of suffering that needs attention. ...
And how will you do this?
Write urgent action letters for Amnesty International.
I think that we should try to save others from human rights abuses whichever country they live in. ...
Why? Do you think someone should have stepped in and stopped the Americans?
Many people tried to stop human rights abuses in America as elsewhere.
The ethic is the strong should help the weak.
Well it's a nice thought but how about the weak learn to help themselves otherwise they're always going to be weak?
Sometimes people cannot help themselves as you very well know.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:22 am

Belinda wrote:Sometimes people cannot help themselves as you very well know.
I do and what I want to know is what you actually propose when you say you want to help the weak in other countries?

Belinda
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Belinda » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:50 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:22 am
Belinda wrote:Sometimes people cannot help themselves as you very well know.
I do and what I want to know is what you actually propose when you say you want to help the weak in other countries?
Do you want to discuss facts and figures , or general principles? If the former, I am not qualified to do so.

If the latter, I mention in particular that there are charities that help the weak in other countries. If you watch television you will be aware of the flood of requests for donations at this time of year especially. I have already mentioned Amnesty International and that is a way in which poor people with almost no money to spare can actively help other poor people, by making known to authorities that people from different nations,different levels of education, and different social classes know about allegations of human rights abuses, and what they ask for to stop those specific abuses.

Politically I support funding of foreign aid because corruption, inefficiency, and ignorance wherever they occur affect the whole world not only the poorer nations.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:51 pm

Belinda wrote:...
If the latter, I mention in particular that there are charities that help the weak in other countries. If you watch television you will be aware of the flood of requests for donations at this time of year especially. I have already mentioned Amnesty International and that is a way in which poor people with almost no money to spare can actively help other poor people, by making known to authorities that people from different nations,different levels of education, and different social classes know about allegations of human rights abuses, and what they ask for to stop those specific abuses.
My apologies I didn't see your replies inside my quote in your previous post. If this is what you mean by helping and interfering then I have no issue with such actions but personally don't think they change much substantially other than to make us feel a bit better.
Politically I support funding of foreign aid because corruption, inefficiency, and ignorance wherever they occur affect the whole world not only the poorer nations. ...
I'm not sure I do as much of our foreign aid appears to get misappropriated and if in the form of foodstuffs can distort the internal markets in those goods to the detriment of the farmers. I also wonder why my country gives foreign aid to India when they appear to be able to afford a space agency?

Belinda
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Belinda » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:35 pm

My fault, Arising, and it's because I haven't yet come to terms with the quotations system here. I don't understand the practical criteria for the distribution of foreign aid. All I can say is what I already have said about general principles.

As for Amnesty International, it is very well run, and small movers do make an actual difference. For instance, when a prisoner of conscience receives mail bags full of non-religious greetings cards at Xmas the prison guards and the governor cannot but notice !

Viveka
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Viveka » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:50 am

I hate to be 'racist' but blacks appear to have a culture of their own. Ebonics is a recognized language alongside proper English. Rap music is always 'gangster' and appeals to young black folks and when it isn't it's pretty good, as long as it isn't about money or sex or fame or drugs and the 'screet'. Honestly, when I was in High School I was amazed that the black people even passed English class or understood Shakespeare.

End racist rant.

Belinda
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Belinda » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:33 pm

What you wrote is not racist, Viveca.You were impartial. If you could refer us to a broad based essay about language and culture among African Americans it would be even more interesting.
Your point about how minorities with thriving cultures of their own can be taught the mainstream high culture especially interests me.

davidm
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by davidm » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:25 pm

Belinda wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:33 pm
What you wrote is not racist, Viveca.
:lol:

Londoner
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Londoner » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:21 am

Viveka wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:50 am
I hate to be 'racist' but blacks appear to have a culture of their own. Ebonics is a recognized language alongside proper English. Rap music is always 'gangster' and appeals to young black folks and when it isn't it's pretty good, as long as it isn't about money or sex or fame or drugs and the 'screet'. Honestly, when I was in High School I was amazed that the black people even passed English class or understood Shakespeare.

End racist rant.
It is perfectly possible to operate in more than one culture. Young black people in London talk to each other like Jamaican (or American) gangsters, but they don't talk that way when they get home to their mothers, otherwise their mothers would not understand them.

I think we all try out personas, especially when we are young, to find an identity for ourselves or just to fit in. What would be racist would be to think that (unlike white people) black people can only have one sort of culture.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:11 pm

Everyone's 'racist'. Some people are just bigger hypocrites than others. Homicidal nut-jobs are a different matter.

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