Philosophy Now Forum

it ain't healthy to be honest with everyone. deserve is higher than honesty. and that's honest.

osgart wrote:it ain't healthy to be honest with everyone. deserve is higher than honesty. and that's honest.

To prevent harm from coming to someone.

PhilX

exactly.

And example would reveal whether or not you two actually agree.

Walker wrote:And example would reveal whether or not you two actually agree.

We may agree with some examples and disagree with others. What would that prove?

PhilX

It would serve to begin isolating the principle from circumstance.

Right now there are no objective markers to distinguish your agreement.

Hats off to Si Woo Kim.

Bit of American humour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWJX9yUKJeQ

Lying is the right thing to do for those whose motto is, by any means necessary.

Any means necessary includes lying, cheating, and rigging the primaries to steal the party nomination from Bernie Sanders.

By any means necessary includes progressive President Obama consciously spouting great big whoppers to the citizens about ... practically everything.

Not even Progs dispute this. Rather, he is called "presidential" on the basis of persuasive, glib lying.

Walker wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2017 1:00 pm Lying is the right thing to do for those whose motto is, by any means necessary.

Any means necessary includes lying, cheating, and rigging the primaries to steal the party nomination from Bernie Sanders.

By any means necessary includes progressive President Obama consciously spouting great big whoppers to the citizens about ... practically everything.

Not even Progs dispute this. Rather, he is called "presidential" on the basis of persuasive, glib lying.

Do you distinguish between willing and unwilling lying?

PhilX

If the topic is to be “unwilling lie,” then the thread title needs to be amended to:

When ignorant is the right thing to be.

I do not know. I can not think of any examples of when lying is the right thing to do.

Maybe in this war-torn, extremely judgmental, very ridiculing, and non-peaceful way of life human beings are living now, lying may sometimes prevent some harm, some damage, and/or some deaths to some people from occurring, but ALL of these human beings are going to hurt, suffer, and die in one form or another anyway. So, I really can not think of any examples at all when lying is the right thing to do. Even in this current barbaric world.

Obviously in the forthcoming much better world, where every one is doing the right thing anyway, there would not be any harm nor damage being done to each other, so, in this world, there would never be any examples of when lying is the right thing to do. I can not think of any reason for when lying would be necessary.

If no one lying is, then every one is being truthful with each other and thus themselves also, which, in hindsight, means some of the greatest harm and damage being done to one another would be completely prevented and eliminated. Sometimes the greatest hurt done to a person is done by being lied to.

ken wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2017 7:21 am I do not know. I can not think of any examples of when lying is the right thing to do.

People lie to preserve their self-image all the time.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2017 2:52 pm

ken wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2017 7:21 am I do not know. I can not think of any examples of when lying is the right thing to do.

People lie to preserve their self-image all the time.

Or further, to preserve the physical or emotional stability of others.

Vendetta wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2017 3:31 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2017 2:52 pm

ken wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2017 7:21 am I do not know. I can not think of any examples of when lying is the right thing to do.

People lie to preserve their self-image all the time.

Or further, to preserve the physical or emotional stability of others.

That does not require lying.

For instance with a child, you truthfully tell the child what is good about the child. From this, the child will learn what is not good about the world. This takes no calculation on your part. It only requires you to be totally honest and mindful, to speak the truth that you see which is yes, because yes is life. From truth comes a true life.

For instance, if the child wants to see Santa, find a Santa to show.
The child says, I saw Santa the other day and he looked different. (Different shopping mall).

You say, let me show you a human. And you point to one.
Then you point to another one and say, that’s a different human.

Then the child learns to think by making the connection, and you didn’t lie.

Now the child is truthfully equipped to ask relevant questions about Santa and discover philosophy, history, ethics, selfishness, altruism, principles, relativity, appearance, actions that correlate with appearance, lumps of coal, the rewards of goodness, why Santa prefers red, why he’s so jolly all the time, how do you know what you know, let's go ask a Santa, and so on.

BAD SANTA Movie Clip - Santa's Lap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdMZhnu9fh4