Trumpery - or how to be a Demagogue

[henry quirk]

Ladies first.

[Arising_uk]

Nope.
Obama never made an illegal EO. As a lawyer he had respect for constitutional law - a thing that Trump is ignorant of.

From what I understand these EO are subject to legal review which may or may not occur and until then they are binding on the agencies and from what I read they are likely to stand exactly because Obama used them for the same purpose. So it also appears that Trump is well within his presidential rights with respect to immigration.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Nope.
Obama never made an illegal EO. As a lawyer he had respect for constitutional law - a thing that Trump is ignorant of.

From what I understand these EO are subject to legal review which may or may not occur and until then they are binding on the agencies and from what I read they are likely to stand exactly because Obama used them for the same purpose. So it also appears that Trump is well within his presidential rights with respect to immigration.

If you are stranded at an airport with your invalidated green card, and can't get home to do your job, a judicial revue is not much help.

[Arising_uk]

If you are stranded at an airport with your invalidated green card, and can't get home to do your job, a judicial revue is not much help.

Don't they put you on the next plane out?

[Hobbes' Choice]

If you are stranded at an airport with your invalidated green card, and can't get home to do your job, a judicial revue is not much help.

Don't they put you on the next plane out?

What do you not get about the fact that these people live and work in the USA?
"home" is the us.

[Arising_uk]

...
What do you not get about the fact that these people live and work in the USA?
"home" is the us.

Apparently not. I thought the Green Card was just the right to work not to be an American?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

The way he's gone about this is wrong, and scarily primitive. Those kind of laws have to be implemented gradually and thoughtfully. You can't just strand people at airports who previously had valid and legal entry into the US. It's cruel. Why not simply make it that no more visas would be issued after a certain date?

[Arising_uk]

I think the clue is in him being a complete twat. Ever watched the US Apprentice - how anyone voted for this twat after watching that is beyond me but not apparently the Yank.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

I think the clue is in him being a complete twat. Ever watched the US Apprentice - how anyone voted for this twat after watching that is beyond me but not apparently the Yank.

He's behaving like a banana-republic dictator. I wonder if the US could sink any lower. It's the laughing stock of the planet. No one could say it's boring though. I don't remember politics ever being this entertaining.

[Hobbes' Choice]

...
What do you not get about the fact that these people live and work in the USA?
"home" is the us.

Apparently not. I thought the Green Card was just the right to work not to be an American?

Have a word with your self. You can't work somewhere without making it your home,

[Belinda]

Walker wrote:

Attempting to qualify the meaning of profit with commercial does not alter the more general meaning of profit as benefit.

For the fact is, every encounter is a profit or loss for one or both parties, be they commercial, charitable, personal, impersonal, corporate or international. The significance of the profit or loss ranges from very minor to earth shaking. The principle perpetually takes form whenever two or more are gathered.

Nevertheless the peasants will not revolt until their passion for liberty is aroused. When the peasants' passion for liberty is aroused the peasants will revolt. None of us lives by bread alone.

[Arising_uk]

Have a word with your self. You can't work somewhere without making it your home,

Sure you can make a home there but it doesn't make it your home it just makes it somewhere you live abroad as a foreign national. To truly make it your home you'd have to become a citizen of the place I think. But I do stand corrected as it appears the Green Card is the right to permanent residence so when the courts get round to it I guess Trump's action might be illegal but again he also appears to have very strong powers under their immigration laws so maybe not and currently it's within his powers to executive order such things. Although it seems that a Green Card is not officially a Visa even tho' it is used as tho' it is(could be wrong tho' as it all seems fairly convoluted).

[henry quirk]

Green cards are a privilege (legally obtained) not a right (except as defined legally, which is to say the U.S. grants it, which is to say the U.S. extends a privilege).

Not a soul livin' outside American soil has a right to set a pinky toe on American soil if the door is closed (as it has been, temporarily, in the most awkward way possible).

Furthermore, not one word of the U.S. Constitution applies to any soul who isn't --by birth or naturalization -- a citizen (and that includes the naive 'dreamers' who took Obama's foundationless word that not a one of 'em would face deportation).

Nope, it ain't nice, but it is what it is: a nation can and should do as it sees fit to preserve and further itself. Every nation does this...no reason at all the U.S. should do differently.

#

"Nevertheless the peasants will not revolt until their passion for liberty is aroused. When the peasants' passion for liberty is aroused the peasants will revolt. None of us lives by bread alone."

First, calling us peasants ain't scorin' you no points.

Second, when we revolt, it won't be to install a communitarianism that fits seamlessly into the global community (liberty for all!).

No, the revolt (which has started, by the way) will be to assert 'one' over many, self-direction in the face of those who'd direct (in other words: self-possession, self-ownership). The revolt will be (is) about (re)gaining a singular nation peopled with individuals (well, that's the plan, anyway...like anything else that should move folks toward 'mind your own biz' instead of away, chances are it'll fail and you communitarians will get your way: an ass-to-mouth world, 'Harrison Bergeron' made real).

[Walker]

Furthermore, not one word of the U.S. Constitution applies to any soul who isn't --by birth or naturalization -- a citizen (and that includes the naive 'dreamers' who took Obama's foundationless word that not a one of 'em would face deportation).

That is the area of contention sapping the resources of U.S. states, thus the need for border control.

Anyone inside the country does have Constitutional protections of God given rights. Non-citizens don't have the Constitutional right to enter the country no matter what color their cards. But here’s the rub.

Since the writing, Constitutional rights have been liberally interpreted to mean free stuff: like free healthcare, free education, free food, free money in the pocket, free Obamaphones, you know the drill.

Then there’s the natural law that dictates every right carries a responsibility that if not met, ends the right. The balance of the responsibility is often due at the end of thirty days, unless longer payment terms have been arranged or subsidized as a God given, Constitutional right.

[Belinda]

Walker wrote:

Since the writing, Constitutional rights have been liberally interpreted to mean free stuff: like free healthcare, free education, free food, free money in the pocket, free Obamaphones, you know the drill.

If a destitute woman in pain came to your door , would you not get her inside and help her to get medical care?

If a starved child came to your door and asked for something to eat, would you say no?

Do you imagine a democracy can work if the people are uneducated?