Why is slavery immoral?

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Scott Mayers
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Re: Why is slavery immoral?

Post by Scott Mayers »

Vormulak wrote:Some people are undoubtedly irredeemable (serial murderers, cannibals, terrorists etc) so why shouldn't we enslave them and force them to do manual labor? Is there a good reason not to enslave them?
Because the tendency will always be to associate those who are deemed the 'irredeemable' based on Nationalistic lines (ethnicity). Besides, laws are forms of created 'morality' which don't exist in nature. As such, even what is considered, "serial murder", "cannibals", "terrorists", "etc", are themselves not as clearly sure to be moral or not by some relative standards or circumstance.
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Greta
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Re: Why is slavery immoral?

Post by Greta »

Yes Scott, there would be a risk of scope creep and framings. In the meantime more damage still is being done to the rehabilitation of inmates through toleration of the worst of them. Anyway, better stick with slavery. Sorry for the digression.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why is slavery immoral?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Greta wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Greta wrote: No, just inmates who bash and rape others.
Even if it's your son or your brother...? Or you? American prisons are brutal, dehumanising places. People lie. Will these 'bashers' have a trial? What if they were provoked? Or lied about? Prisoners lie a lot. What about all the innocent people who get locked up? You do realise juries get it wrong a heck of a lot of the time? I'm very surprised you would be so pro death penalty, going by your generally thoughtful comments.
It's utilitarianism, Veggie. The main rapists and bullies in prison are well enough known in there. Nonviolent inmates are brutalised and turned violent. The raped try to reclaim their masculinity by raping women. Or simply become even more dysfunctional. Inmates are made worse, not better, and it's the worst psychopaths who do most of the damage. Out of seven billion people I think we can let some irredeemably and contagiously toxic psychopaths go. Each vicious prison bully gone means dozens, even hundreds (over a period) of inmates whose rehabilitation will be less jeopardised.

In a way it's more humane to kill than to keep caged for life, which is essentially prolonged low level torture.
The death penalty is barbaric and uncivilised, and it's certainly not enough just to say 'they are well known in there'. Of course there are people who deserve it; it's the injustice that sickens me. Society is full of shit-heads, but it's often the non-shitheads who are executed. William Calley spent one day in prison. KKKrisian Americans were outraged at his original sentence Nixon and let him off. Those US soldiers who raped and murdered a young girl after murdering her family were all spared the death penalty because they used 'plea bargains'. That is just patent bullshit. There was no question of their guilt. Plus, forcing someone to 'confess' to something they haven't done in order to avoid the death penalty makes the whole system a farce. And there is obviously a hierarchichal system for getting plea bargains. I suppose it depends on how much money you have to spend on a decent lawyer. I doubt if there are many wealthy people on death row. They don't even bother to make it humane. They want to make a good 'show' to the voyeurs. You hear the kkkristian families of the victims afterwards saying, 'it wasn't painful enough. He should have suffered MORE'.
There are plenty of people around today who would say this boy 'deserved' it.
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Greta
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Re: Why is slavery immoral?

Post by Greta »

I'm not of the school that says we should avoid doing important things (like killing off irredeemably destructive humans) just because it can be abused by the unscrupulous. That is exactly the reason why all of us must live in fear of being kept in prolonged agony at the end of our lives rather than being allowed to die with dignity - fear that there will be abuse.

We have seven billion people on the planet. We can afford to let the crappy ones drop off. If you don't get rid of them, then they will cause many more deaths (by suicide and assault) of petty crims who would have otherwise been rehabilitated https://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison ... hulin.html

A harrowing testimony from a boy's father:
My name is Rodney Hulin and I work at a retirement home here in Beaumont, Texas. I am here today because of my son. He would be here himself if he could . . . . But he can't because he died in [an adult prison]. . . . [At age seventeen], my son was raped and sodomized by an inmate. The doctor found two tears in his rectum and ordered an HIV test, since up to a third of the 2,200 inmates there were HIV positive. Fearing for his safety, he requested to be placed in protective custody, but his request was denied because, as the warden put it, "Rodney's abuses didn't meet the 'emergency grievance criteria.'" For the next several months, my son was repeatedly beaten by the older inmates, forced to perform oral sex, robbed, and beaten again. Each time, his requests for protection were denied by the warden. The abuses, meanwhile, continued. On the night of January 26, 1996--seventy-five days after my son entered Clemens--Rodney attempted suicide by hanging himself in his cell. He could no longer stand to live in continual terror. It was too much for him to handle. He laid in a coma for the next four months until he died
Meanwhile the rapists continued on their merry way, unpunished, no doubt still preying on a conveyor belt of vulnerable inmates. They even get to have regular sex in prison, even if their victims would be wishing they were dead while the act is in progress.

So, yes, execute prison predators - the worst of the worst. The current situation is that authorities turn a blind eye because if they deny the prison heavies their rapes then they would be impossible to control.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why is slavery immoral?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Greta wrote:I'm not of the school that says we should avoid doing important things (like killing off irredeemably destructive humans) just because it can be abused by the unscrupulous. That is exactly the reason why all of us must live in fear of being kept in prolonged agony at the end of our lives rather than being allowed to die with dignity - fear that there will be abuse.

We have seven billion people on the planet. We can afford to let the crappy ones drop off. If you don't get rid of them, then they will cause many more deaths (by suicide and assault) of petty crims who would have otherwise been rehabilitated https://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison ... hulin.html

A harrowing testimony from a boy's father:
My name is Rodney Hulin and I work at a retirement home here in Beaumont, Texas. I am here today because of my son. He would be here himself if he could . . . . But he can't because he died in [an adult prison]. . . . [At age seventeen], my son was raped and sodomized by an inmate. The doctor found two tears in his rectum and ordered an HIV test, since up to a third of the 2,200 inmates there were HIV positive. Fearing for his safety, he requested to be placed in protective custody, but his request was denied because, as the warden put it, "Rodney's abuses didn't meet the 'emergency grievance criteria.'" For the next several months, my son was repeatedly beaten by the older inmates, forced to perform oral sex, robbed, and beaten again. Each time, his requests for protection were denied by the warden. The abuses, meanwhile, continued. On the night of January 26, 1996--seventy-five days after my son entered Clemens--Rodney attempted suicide by hanging himself in his cell. He could no longer stand to live in continual terror. It was too much for him to handle. He laid in a coma for the next four months until he died
Meanwhile the rapists continued on their merry way, unpunished, no doubt still preying on a conveyor belt of vulnerable inmates. They even get to have regular sex in prison, even if their victims would be wishing they were dead while the act is in progress.

So, yes, execute prison predators - the worst of the worst. The current situation is that authorities turn a blind eye because if they deny the prison heavies their rapes then they would be impossible to control.
I have already pointed out that of course many people deserve it, but it's too unjust, too open to corruption, and the people who DESERVE it hardly rarely get it anyway. I would love to see Bush exectuted. He has so much blood on his hands it beggars belief. He's responsible for every rape and murder in Iraq since the illegal invasion, yet he lives the life of Riley, fishing and golfing his days away. The most annoying thing in his life is probably all the people wanting to shake his hand and pat him on the back.
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TSBU
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Re: Why is slavery immoral?

Post by TSBU »

Vormulak wrote:Some people are undoubtedly irredeemable (serial murderers, cannibals, terrorists etc) so why shouldn't we enslave them and force them to do manual labor? Is there a good reason not to enslave them?
"Inmoral" is a word that people use wrong, because only a few people choose their ethic, the rest are just pawns. I agree that there are people who are"undoubtedly irredeemable" (whoa, what words XD), but I don't think that's the people you've described. They are slaves now, but we use new words in this times, slaves work better thinking that they are not slaves, and they can stop working if they want, well, they've always could in history, that just mean they'll die, usually because of hunger.

Soon, there is going to be a change, machines are more reliable every and usefull than them, every day a little more, now it's difficult to find a job with a medium salary for many people, in the future it will be impossible, so they won't have a job, they are going to be useless, there won't be a reason to keep them as slaves.

It's easy to make food though, I don't know XD. Maybe they are feed, so that they don't turn in what they've been taught to call "inmoral" now.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Why is slavery immoral?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Vormulak wrote:Some people are undoubtedly irredeemable (serial murderers, cannibals, terrorists etc) so why shouldn't we enslave them and force them to do manual labor? Is there a good reason not to enslave them?
Can you explain why countries with the same or similar genetic dispositions produce vastly different rates of "serial murderers, cannibals, and terrorists?

But if you are claiming they are irredeemable, then you are punishing them not for their choices but because of what they are.


Here's something to consider.
Some people are undoubtedly irredeemable (Royalists, Capitalists, Fascists, Christians, Muslims) so why shouldn't we enslave them to do manual labour?
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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk »

"so why shouldn't we enslave them to do manual labour?"

Mebbe cuz those irredeemables have guns (they love to use) while all the evolved folks (pussies) don't.
Beauty
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Re: Why is slavery immoral?

Post by Beauty »

Slavery is immoral in every way because all of us have the right to be free. Absolute Freedom. But then, if we enslave, then we will be enslaved and so it comes 'round a full circle, justice is done, and it's all good. So then we come to understand that the slaves of old, must have enslaved others, or they would not be in that position. So then the law goes, do not enslave, and you will not be enslaved. Then we all sit winners in life.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re:

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

henry quirk wrote:"so why shouldn't we enslave them to do manual labour?"

Mebbe cuz those irredeemables have guns (they love to use) while all the evolved folks (pussies) don't.
Take their guns away from them. Invade their lands, take their oil and build an empire. Trump's our guy.
Impenitent
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Re: Re:

Post by Impenitent »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
henry quirk wrote:"so why shouldn't we enslave them to do manual labour?"

Mebbe cuz those irredeemables have guns (they love to use) while all the evolved folks (pussies) don't.
Take their guns away from them. Invade their lands, take their oil and build an empire. Trump's our guy.
that's manifest destiny

-Imp
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Harbal
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Re: Why is slavery immoral?

Post by Harbal »

Hobbes' Choice wrote: Some people are undoubtedly irredeemable (Royalists, Capitalists, Fascists, Christians, Muslims)
You missed out grumpy socialists.
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Lacewing
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Re: Why is slavery immoral?

Post by Lacewing »

Harbal wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote: Some people are undoubtedly irredeemable (Royalists, Capitalists, Fascists, Christians, Muslims)
You missed out grumpy socialists.
Nice to see you back here, Harbal. I've missed you! :)
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Harbal
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Re: Why is slavery immoral?

Post by Harbal »

Lacewing wrote: Nice to see you back here, Harbal. I've missed you! :)
It's only a flying visit, I'm very busy so I'm afraid you're going to have to go back to missing me for a while longer. :)
osgart
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Re: Why is slavery immoral?

Post by osgart »

aint supposed to be somebodys bitch
its called civil rights. They make employment so you cant keep a dime
is that slavery? Money serves the wealthy , it dont serve the poor, so money is a form of slavery to the wealthy.
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