Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

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prof
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Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by prof »

In a column by Corey Savard, yours truly stumbled upon this startling news as I was searching for a solution to the Applied Ethics Problem which shall arise in the future, if it hasn't already arisen, with the rapid advances in Generalized Artificial Intelligence, which enables robots and automation to take over all kinds of jobs, thus dispensing largely with human beings.


https://allumenewsblog.wordpress.com/20 ... ic-income/




Also see:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/nri/ ... 314382.cms



For further background, and to learn about the succeessful experiences with this in Finalnd, India, the Nederlands, and Manitoba, see:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=universal+ ... 6BEFF7E33E


This policy seems to be an ethical social policy in that it violates no one's rights, nor their dignity. Yet it is liberating; and solves several moral dilemmas and eliminates some disvalues and some misery. It adds, and even multiplies, positive value.

Your views?
prof
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Re: Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by prof »

Critics have commented: "It seems something like "basic income" would have to be in place in order to achieve real freedom in a whole society -- necessary, but not sufficient, and vulnerable to all sorts of abuse in practice. But what isn't?"

Let us hope this proposal for Ontario - and later Quebec - is not a excuse to cut programs that people already rely upon. For what good is a plan to provide child care for single mothers who meet some strict requirements, which this plan is now, if it cuts the safety net in another place on the net.

Conservatives are worried about the demoralizing effects of what they call "a free lunch," yet Alaska is a conservative-voting state that has granted each of its citizens about $4000 a year with no adverse effects.

n Alaska, the state has a "permanent fund" which functions like a Basic Universal Income grant for each citizen.

The Fund is designed to be an investment where at least 25% of the oil money would be put into a dedicated fund for future generations.

After many years of receiving these grants, the plan has not corrupted the citizens and turned them into a bunch of lazy bums.

You can read up on the details in a Wiki article dedicated to this topic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

and, specifically, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund


What are your thoughtful analyses, or your views, on these topics??
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Kayla
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Re: Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by Kayla »

there are in fact some lazy people who do not wnat to work

guaranteed minimum income might allow them to not work

this is not a bad thing

if someone is standing arund with with stop/slow sign directing trqffic arround a construction site, i think having someone who really does not want to be there and resents having t be there is not a good thing

likewise if i am working at a deep fryer i would prefer that the person next to me did not thoroughly hate his job - deep fryers can be very dangerous

some people take shitty jobs because they have too much pride for welfare, or think they might leverage the shitty job into something less shitty, or think a shitty job still looks better on a resume than a blank space - those r good reasons to have a shitty job - and they will apply even with a guaranteed minimum income

but if someone is compelled to have a shitty job by, in effect, threats of violence - take this job or have no food or shelter - it is better for people around them if they stay home and collect minimum income
prof
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Re: Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by prof »

Greetings, Kayla

What you write is very insightful :!:

You have given us a new perspective, and a good rational argument.

I thank you for it. I learned something.



What do the rest of you say? Are you afraid of someone getting "a free lunch"? Or do you agree with Kayla that we are all better off if some people ((due to their circumstances) stay home and collect. Will they never, thereafter, contribute to society?

Don't most people have some talent that if and when it is expressed society would find it to be useful? We may speak of it as "the inner artist." If only we had an education system - as some political party's two presidential candidates are promising to cultivate and deliver - hat successfully and consistently developed, and drew out, the gifts and talents latent within each individual.
Gary Childress
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Re: Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by Gary Childress »

Interesting news. Thanks for posting it, Prof. I too am curious to see how things turn out with Ontario's experiment.
prof
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Re: Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by prof »

Breaking News !!!!!!!!

I have an update to report:



I believe many of you will find this news to be extremely interesting
.


To learn the latest developments, at the link below, scroll down the page and read about what is happening in Finland and in India. The actual live empirical experiments are going on here and now !


https://thebossmagazine.com/finland-ind ... ic-income/

What do think about that?


The main objection I have heard is "one size does not fit all; customization is needed for each grantee. Recipients need to be screened to see that they are not drug addicts; and if they are, they need to be sent to rehab, else they will just waste the governments money. The best course is to do as they do in Germany, namely, channel youth at the earliest level practical into an apprentice program mathing their talents and capacities."

Then there is the new book out by David Smick, entitled THE GREAT EQUALIZER.

What do you say about these matters?
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TSBU
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Re: Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by TSBU »

prof wrote:Breaking News !!!!!!!!

I have an update to report:



I believe many of you will find this news to be extremely interesting
.


To learn the latest developments, at the link below, scroll down the page and read about what is happening in Finland and in India. The actual live empirical experiments are going on here and now !


https://thebossmagazine.com/finland-ind ... ic-income/

What do think about that?


The main objection I have heard is "one size does not fit all; customization is needed for each grantee. Recipients need to be screened to see that they are not drug addicts; and if they are, they need to be sent to rehab, else they will just waste the governments money. The best course is to do as they do in Germany, namely, channel youth at the earliest level practical into an apprentice program mathing their talents and capacities."

Then there is the new book out by David Smick, entitled THE GREAT EQUALIZER.

What do you say about these matters?
You are very VERY sick.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

TSBU wrote:
prof wrote:Breaking News !!!!!!!!

I have an update to report:



I believe many of you will find this news to be extremely interesting
.


To learn the latest developments, at the link below, scroll down the page and read about what is happening in Finland and in India. The actual live empirical experiments are going on here and now !


https://thebossmagazine.com/finland-ind ... ic-income/

What do think about that?


The main objection I have heard is "one size does not fit all; customization is needed for each grantee. Recipients need to be screened to see that they are not drug addicts; and if they are, they need to be sent to rehab, else they will just waste the governments money. The best course is to do as they do in Germany, namely, channel youth at the earliest level practical into an apprentice program mathing their talents and capacities."

Then there is the new book out by David Smick, entitled THE GREAT EQUALIZER.

What do you say about these matters?
You are very VERY sick.
How so???
User avatar
TSBU
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Re: Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by TSBU »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: How so???
For many reasons.

His nick is "prof", correct me if I'm wrong, but that's "professor" (teacher). And he clearly shows that he is here to "show things".

I haven't seen any prof thread or post that isn't about ethics, that' what he wants to show. In that field, he talks about "science", and he is always talking about "why should you be ethic"... in a completely absurd way.
Who the hell doesn't know what is causing harm to other people and how will that people live worse after doing it? Knowing that is what make people non ethical. They don't need someone to tell them that they are doing something bad to other people. It's creepy to talk to a rapist and say him "you are causing harm", he would look like this:
Image
He is always talkin about "lot of people at the same time", this political bullshit about basic income shows that he has probably reached the "non return" point from Narnia.
Etc etc.
-----
First ethics class,
-I'm the teacher, and this is a science, wich means that it has rigid rules. Look at your right, then look at your left. Those students... don't think in them, think in all the whole class at the same time and deal with the whole class and not with single people, that's what ethics is all about. Now... we shall start talking about money, who wants basic income?
-Me!, Me! Oh, this is interesting!
prof
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Re: Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by prof »

I found this quote by D. Wineberg in a review written for the book, Utopia for Realists by by Rutger Bregman:



Guaranteed income sounds impossibly expensive, but everywhere it has been tried – dozens of places - it has worked spectacularly. For one thing, every dollar spent saves three, in less supervision of beneficiaries (eg. Police and court services, pointless workshops, training sessions and reports on everyone all the time). For another, the poor don’t drink away the income; they hang onto it dearly, measuring it out only as needed for the biggest impact. Poverty is not an attitude; it is a shortage of cash.


Also you may want to view this insightful video based on the pioneering work of Kate Raworth, and her brilliant explanation of economics for our time, in the book DOUGHNUT ECONOMICS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIG33Qt ... 142.437959

And for further background, see this (and its subsequent videos also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BHOflzxPjI

Your comments and/or reviews ...?
prof
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:57 am

Re: Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by prof »

Sidney Fulkerson and Dr. Diamandes informs us:

Germany Hits a Record 85% Renewables

What it is: According to data provided by Agora Energiewende Initiative, Germany hit a new record level of serving 85% of its energy needs with renewables on April 30 -- part of the May 1 long weekend. The country had a significant boost in wind and solar output, with biomass and hydro nearly sidelining hard coal plants. Most of Germany's coal-fired power stations weren't even operating when the country hit its new record.

Why it's important: We recently saw that California is on track to meet its 50% clean energy target by 2030 with ease, and Germany's new record high provides us with more proof that the global potential for operating on renewables by 2030 is increasingly feasible. Given the exponential growth in solar worldwide and the coming innovations in battery technologies, we’re rapidly heading towards a major energy transition.

Comments?
prof
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:57 am

Re: Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by prof »

In 13 years from now, or less, we may not need such measures as Universal Basic Income. Why?

A "World First" Fusion Reactor Just Created Its First Plasma

What it is: Tokamak Energy, a leading private fusion energy company, successfully generated first plasma, essentially a molten mass of gas inside its core. Dubbed the ST40, Tokamak’s reactor is projected to achieve temperatures of 100 million degrees Celsius by 2018, which is the minimum temperature needed to induce a controlled fusion reaction. This is a great first step in Tokamak’s moonshot to begin generating electricity by 2025 and commercially viable fusion power by 2030.

Why it's important: Unlike any other form of energy production, fusion involves only salt and water with helium as its waste product. Producing a compact and affordable fusion reactor would certainly demonetize energy production, but it would also likely generate new insights into what is possible with a near-zero cost of massive amounts of high-density energy.

Comments?
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Seleucus
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Re: Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by Seleucus »

prof wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:47 amThis policy seems to be an ethical social policy in that it violates no one's rights, nor their dignity. Yet it is liberating; and solves several moral dilemmas and eliminates some disvalues and some misery. It adds, and even multiplies, positive value.

Your views?
Sign me up! My family and I will be glad to live off the sweat of your brow.
prof
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Re: Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by prof »

Seleucus wrote: Fri May 26, 2017 8:03 am ...My family and I will be glad to live off the sweat of your brow.
Why don't you assume some responsibility. That way, you will be meriting the comforts that the intellectual "brows" devise and share with you, as they work out and give to the world new software, and AI, to place into robots who will serve you in years to come.

Ethical technologies you have inherited are the printing press, the telephone, the jury system, the Constitution set up to "Provide for the General Welfare", the TV, the internet, the road system, traffic lights, nonpprofit agencies, the B-Corp., etc.

With regard to the B-corp, see the first video HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGnz-w9p5FU
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Seleucus
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Re: Ontario to experiment with universal basic income

Post by Seleucus »

prof wrote: Mon May 29, 2017 7:02 am
Seleucus wrote: Fri May 26, 2017 8:03 am ...My family and I will be glad to live off the sweat of your brow.
Why don't you assume some responsibility. That way, you will be meriting the comforts that the intellectual "brows" devise and share with you, as they work out and give to the world new software, and AI, to place into robots who will serve you in years to come.

Ethical technologies you have inherited are the printing press, the telephone, the jury system, the Constitution set up to "Provide for the General Welfare", the TV, the internet, the road system, traffic lights, nonpprofit agencies, the B-Corp., etc.

With regard to the B-corp, see the first video HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGnz-w9p5FU
Whatever you say. Give me my money!
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