Doing The Right Thing

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tbieter
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Doing The Right Thing

Post by tbieter »

"Bailey, an aspiring physical therapist, told the Devils Lake Journal, “I feel like I was just doing the right thing." (Emphasis added}
http://www.runnersworld.com/general-int ... inish-line

I saw this interview with Bailey on my evening newscast. She made the statement spontaneously, probably as spontaneous as her decision to pick up and carry the other runner to the finish line.

I was struck by Bailey's statement, her reason for acting as she did, her doing "the right thing."

Is it reasonable to assert that her action is evidence of the existence of an objective moral order, or of the existence an objective order of right actions ?

In every encounter between a human being and another being, is there a right action to be taken by the human being?

Similar actions occur occasionally and are reported in the news. I've always been struck by the fact that the actor usually (a) acts spontaneously, and, (b) when questioned, refers to doing "the right thing." For example, I recall a report about a homeless guy. He found a briefcase containing a lot of cash in a public place. He promptly went to the nearby police precinct and turned it in. When questioned, he simply said it was the "right thing to do."

What do you think?

What is an alternative explanation for this pattern of human actions?


spon·ta·ne·ous adjective \spän-ˈtā-nē-əs\
: done or said in a natural and often sudden way and without a lot of thought or planning
: doing things that have not been planned but that seem enjoyable and worth doing at a particular time
mickthinks
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Re: Doing The Right Thing

Post by mickthinks »

Impressive lady—thanks, Tom. for linking to the story.

I think I see where you are headed with your questions. If "it was the right thing to do" is said so often by different people in situations that are unconnected with each other, is that not evidence of an objective ethical value, in defiance of the post-modern relativist nay-sayers?

I think the answer is "no". At most, it shows that the belief in the objectivity of some of one's own moral values is a common one. It is possible that when Melanie Bailey used the words "the right thing", all she meant was it was the right thing for her.
tbieter
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Re: Doing The Right Thing

Post by tbieter »

mickthinks wrote:Impressive lady—thanks, Tom. for linking to the story.

I think I see where you are headed with your questions. If "it was the right thing to do" is said so often by different people in situations that are unconnected with each other, is that not evidence of an objective ethical value, in defiance of the post-modern relativist nay-sayers?

I think the answer is "no". At most, it shows that the belief in the objectivity of some of one's own moral values is a common one. It is possible that when Melanie Bailey used the words "the right thing", all she meant was it was the right thing for her.
"The moral imagination is the principal possession that man does not share with the beasts. It is man’s power to perceive ethical truth, abiding law, in the seeming chaos of many events. Without the moral imagination, man would live merely day to day, or rather moment to moment, as dogs do. It is the strange faculty—inexplicable if men are assumed to have an animal nature only—of discerning greatness, justice, and order, beyond the bars of appetite and self-interest." (Emphasis added)

Russell Kirk, Enemies of the Permanent Things, 1969
duszek
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Re: Doing The Right Thing

Post by duszek »

The question of doing the right thing comes to mind when we make some sort of sacrifice for a higher ideal and repress the instinct of self-preservation.
tbieter
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Re: Doing The Right Thing

Post by tbieter »

"In a prepared statement, the sergeant said returning the money was simply “the right thing to do.” (Emphasis added)
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/1 ... e-savings/

Note well: the officer did not say that returning the money was simply 'the right thing to do for me.', which is Mick's preferred interpretation of events like this.

What do you think.

Does an order of right actions relative to each particular event, external to the actor, exist in reality?
duszek
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Re: Doing The Right Thing

Post by duszek »

It could exist in the collective consciousness of a community.

Or in a sort of collective alter ego.

People obey its commands without thinking about it. It is only if some unusual circumstances occur that they start thinking about the reason behind the commands.
artisticsolution
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Re: Doing The Right Thing

Post by artisticsolution »

So you're walking by a baby who has just fallen in a bucket of water. The baby will surely drown without your help. Is it universally considered wrong to not take action to save the babies life?

What if God came down and told you it was his will that the baby should die?
Ginkgo
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Re: Doing The Right Thing

Post by Ginkgo »

artisticsolution wrote:So you're walking by a baby who has just fallen in a bucket of water. The baby will surely drown without your help. Is it universally considered wrong to not take action to save the babies life?

What if God came down and told you it was his will that the baby should die?
Then we would be discussing the Euthyphro dilemma. Would you like to know what this is?
artisticsolution
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Re: Doing The Right Thing

Post by artisticsolution »

Yes, please share.

In my scenario I am not implying that there IS a god. Just that someone might think there is. I am thinking about the title of this thread "doing the right thing".

If there is such a thing as "doing the right thing" then it seems to me that the reasons for doing the right thing are inconsequential. As most of us can come up for reasons why we do what we do...or think the way we do.

My point is...if one believes in God...and believes that God told him or her to allow the baby to die, then that person should not see allowing a baby to die as necessarily wrong..if the same action was taken by another.

So, if there is no 'right thing' to do, then doesn't it stand to reason that we should not care about politics? Who cares who goes to war...or who is the top 1%...or who lets what country starve, etc.

There is a reason the world has it's hero's and it's villains....and I think that reason is because as a whole, we know right from wrong, generally speaking, and we want to do the right thing.
Ginkgo
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Re: Doing The Right Thing

Post by Ginkgo »

artisticsolution wrote:Yes, please share.

In my scenario I am not implying that there IS a god. Just that someone might think there is. I am thinking about the title of this thread "doing the right thing".

If there is such a thing as "doing the right thing" then it seems to me that the reasons for doing the right thing are inconsequential. As most of us can come up for reasons why we do what we do...or think the way we do.

My point is...if one believes in God...and believes that God told him or her to allow the baby to die, then that person should not see allowing a baby to die as necessarily wrong..if the same action was taken by another.

So, if there is no 'right thing' to do, then doesn't it stand to reason that we should not care about politics? Who cares who goes to war...or who is the top 1%...or who lets what country starve, etc.

There is a reason the world has it's hero's and it's villains....and I think that reason is because as a whole, we know right from wrong, generally speaking, and we want to do the right thing.
The Euthyphro Dilemma

(a) Is an act moral just because God commands it?

(b) Is it the case that God would only command moral acts?

(a) If an all-good God commands us to let drowning babies die then we must assume it is the right thing to do.

(b) If God is all-good, then it cannot be the case he would command us to let babies drown. An all-good God would only ever command us to do moral acts.


"If there is such a thing as "doing the right thing" then it seems to me that the reason for doing the right thing are inconsequential. As most of us come up with reasons why we do what we do...or think the way we do."


Yes, but "reasons" are not necessarily the same as "ethical reasons."
artisticsolution
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Re: Doing The Right Thing

Post by artisticsolution »

Doesn't saying the word " ethical" imply there is a sense within in us to "do the right thing"?

I wonder if some people need god in order to know right from wrong in a general sense.
Ginkgo
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Re: Doing The Right Thing

Post by Ginkgo »

artisticsolution wrote:Doesn't saying the word " ethical" imply there is a sense within in us to "do the right thing"?

I wonder if some people need god in order to know right from wrong in a general sense.
Yes, I would say you are correct. Kant would say there is within all of us a special sense that directs us towards doing the right thing. Others believe that this particular sense come from an external source, e.g., Gods divine commands.

The above are two examples of deontological, or duty based ethics.
tbieter
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Re: Doing The Right Thing

Post by tbieter »

Ginkgo wrote:
artisticsolution wrote:Doesn't saying the word " ethical" imply there is a sense within in us to "do the right thing"?

I wonder if some people need god in order to know right from wrong in a general sense.
Yes, I would say you are correct. Kant would say there is within all of us a special sense that directs us towards doing the right thing. Others believe that this particular sense come from an external source, e.g., Gods divine commands.

The above are two examples of deontological, or duty based ethics.
Does the sense perceive a particular ontological action existing external to the perceiver ?
Or does the sense formulate the action to be performed?

Where is prof when we need him?
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BeyondTheAstral
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Re: Doing The Right Thing

Post by BeyondTheAstral »

What is considered normal for “Doing the Right thing” is based on time and environment, for example at one time it was the right thing to stone a sinner!
Ginkgo
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Re: Doing The Right Thing

Post by Ginkgo »

tbieter wrote:
Ginkgo wrote:
artisticsolution wrote:Doesn't saying the word " ethical" imply there is a sense within in us to "do the right thing"?

I wonder if some people need god in order to know right from wrong in a general sense.
Yes, I would say you are correct. Kant would say there is within all of us a special sense that directs us towards doing the right thing. Others believe that this particular sense come from an external source, e.g., Gods divine commands.

The above are two examples of deontological, or duty based ethics.
Does the sense perceive a particular ontological action existing external to the perceiver ?
Or does the sense formulate the action to be performed?

Where is prof when we need him?

Kant provides us with the answer to that question, "Nothing can possibly be conceived in the world, or even out of it, which can be called good without qualification, except a good will." Basically, from Kant's point of view the passing of ethical judgements are bound up with the our reasoning faculty.
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