Race versus culture

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:14 am

Londoner wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:20 pm
Seleucus wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:08 pm
The first thing I'm seeing is Indian national production never declined during the whole period of the Raj as some claim, it grew continuously from 1600 on. I'm also seeing the drain on Indian gross domestic product into British is almost negligible, rarely much more than 1%; considering services rendered it was an extraordinary deal for the Indians. The tiny British civil service was infinitely less corrupt and ostentatious than the Moguls. The comparison of drain with the Dutch Indies which grew to almost 10% is probably totally misleading since the Dutch Cultivation System implemented in the 1830s meant production was exported into the Dutch economy and sold to finance defense, development and administration of the colony. An hour of reading such a vast collection of numbers obviously doesn't do justice, but what I've seen so far totally contradicts the claim that the European colonizers extracted more than they contributed. Furthermore, what is the price of peace, hygiene, linear thinking, fair and efficient courts, electricity, standardized systems of measurement, and so on?
So now you are responding to 'as some claim' as opposed to what anybody actually said.
Sorry, I just don't recall if it was you or someone else who was trying to say Indian production declined during the Raj earlier in the benefits of colonization discussion: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=22730
I cannot be bothered trying to explain this stuff to you.
Yes, I speculated months ago it is laziness that prevents you from taking the time to go through articles to mount any serious arguments.
So we'll say: OK, colonialism was either a tremendous act of charity, or alternatively an accountancy error, not noticed by the colonizers for centuries.
The costs were noticed, but the competition of the Great Game and belief in development coming from the moral conscience of the White man prevented Europeans from quitting colonization sooner.
And now that the kindly/stupid Europeans have gone, ... the rest of Asia are unable to build railways, educate themselves, defend themselves etc.
The irony of your comment! You do realize not a meter has been added in 75 years to the rail lines laid down by the Dutch in what is today Indonesia, that the French lines in Cambodia no longer run, and that nothing much has been built in Africa besides what the Chinese are laying down in East Africa today?

Nice article here about how the Nepal-India line is running for the first time this very year, 2017, since the end of colonial times: https://thewire.in/147940/nepal-colonial-era-rail-link/
Last edited by Seleucus on Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:42 am

Belinda wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:18 pm
Seleucus wrote:
Arising_uk wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:38 pm
I understand why Seleucus wants such a link as he is a racialist who wants to promote the idea of physical appearance being the deciding factor in a culture as he has a dream of a pan-white racialist movement but you?
Other shibboleths might do almost as well, maybe eating with a fork? This is a lot more technical but amounts to just about the same thing
Archaeologists seek the material evidence of 'shibboleths' to aid in the identification of cultures. The linkage of culture and genetic markers doesn't indicate racism. Genetic markers aren't what racists cite to support racial superiority.

http://time.com/91081/what-science-says ... -genetics/

Long and complex essay but well written.
It's high school reading level: https://www.perrymarshall.com/grade/

Wow! So there's as much as a 14% genetic difference between the races? Not sure how they counted that but racists will be happy to hear!

Oh no! "Analysis of genomes from around the world establishes that there is a biological basis for race".

Double oh no! "obvious truth is that genes affecting the brain are just as much subject to natural selection as any other category of gene."

Anywho, the problem is, Gregory Clark is a historian not a geneticist so the whole argument is based on that dreadful word "if", used 13 times in the article!

In my view, children raised by the rich and then moving down the social ladder is a better explanation of shifting social norms than the genetic one presented in the article. But the big thing to be concerned about be it learned culture of genetics which is the mechanism, is that today the flow is reversed, the poor have more children, and then add colored (im)migration to that and the intelligence of our Western countries is going to crash.

Belinda
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Belinda » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:21 am

(Belinda wrote)
http://time.com/91081/what-science-says ... -genetics/

Long and complex essay but well written.
(Seleucus
It's high school reading level: https://www.perrymarshall.com/grade/
That sounds snobbish from you, Seleucus.



(Seleucus)
Anywho, the problem is, Gregory Clark is a historian not a geneticist so the whole argument is based on that dreadful word "if", used 13 times in the article!
Historians are trained to evaluate theories and evidence.
(Seleucus)
In my view, children raised by the rich and then moving down the social ladder is a better explanation of shifting social norms than the genetic one presented in the article.
Maybe so. This would depend more upon individuals than a whole social class.


(Seleucus)
But the big thing to be concerned about be it learned culture of genetics which is the mechanism, is that today the flow is reversed, the poor have more children, and then add colored (im)migration to that and the intelligence of our Western countries is going to crash.
I think there is a typo and you meant "culture or genetics".

You could be right.I think that basically you are right. However what we should do about these trends in population shifts is not closing gates and building walls, but improving education, health, social mobility, and cultural integration, and enriching access to those where it's most needed. Difference in genetics and culture is not the same as levels of 'intelligence'. And please note the startle marks.

The genetic inheritances of migrant populations is as likely to benefit future peace and prosperity in their adopted nations as otherwise. We don't know what sort of brains are the best, apart from physical lesions. Intelligence is not as easily defined or quantified as is melanin.

The cultural inheritances of migrant populations can be used to the advantage of their adopted nations, and can be refined by the best of western education, laws, and training.

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:08 pm

Belinda wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:21 am
You could be right.I think that basically you are right. However what we should do about these trends in population shifts is not closing gates and building walls, but improving education, health, social mobility, and cultural integration, and enriching access to those where it's most needed. Difference in genetics and culture is not the same as levels of 'intelligence'. And please note the startle marks.
No thanks, I'd rather keep what I have to be able to have medial care for myself and my family when we need it and not be taking care of every random person in the world. This is the life and death reality. If you want to be a humble Christian, go to Africa and give it all away to the thronging masses of impoverished people, don't expect me to endanger me and my people's well being so you can virtue signal.
The genetic inheritances of migrant populations is as likely to benefit future peace and prosperity in their adopted nations as otherwise. We don't know what sort of brains are the best, apart from physical lesions. Intelligence is not as easily defined or quantified as is melanin.
Totally speculative and with no tangible basis at all.
The cultural inheritances of migrant populations can be used to the advantage of their adopted nations, and can be refined by the best of western education, laws, and training.
No actually, other than Somali restaurants these people are contributing nothing to the society. "Cultural enrichment" has become a joke.

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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Belinda » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:13 pm

No thanks, I'd rather keep what I have to be able to have medial care for myself and my family when we need it and not be taking care of every random person in the world. This is the life and death reality. If you want to be a humble Christian, go to Africa and give it all away to the thronging masses of impoverished people, don't expect me to endanger me and my people's well being so you can virtue signal.
You and your family, Mr. Trump, are the very rich 1%.

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:22 am

Belinda wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:13 pm
No thanks, I'd rather keep what I have to be able to have medial care for myself and my family when we need it and not be taking care of every random person in the world. This is the life and death reality. If you want to be a humble Christian, go to Africa and give it all away to the thronging masses of impoverished people, don't expect me to endanger me and my people's well being so you can virtue signal.
You and your family, Mr. Trump, are the very rich 1%.
... so you bought that ticket to Africa?

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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Belinda » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:21 am

Seleucus wrote:

... so you bought that ticket to Africa?

The whole world is being raped by the very rich and the difference between rich people and poor people is increasing.

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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:01 pm

Belinda wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:21 am
Seleucus wrote:

... so you bought that ticket to Africa?

The whole world is being raped by the very rich and the difference between rich people and poor people is increasing.
Yes, that's why we all need to support ethnonationalism to resist the elites and their empire.

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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Belinda » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:25 pm

Seleucus wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:01 pm
Belinda wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:21 am
Seleucus wrote:

... so you bought that ticket to Africa?

The whole world is being raped by the very rich and the difference between rich people and poor people is increasing.
Yes, that's why we all need to support ethnonationalism to resist the elites and their empire.
You might explain that in some detail.

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Seleucus
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Seleucus » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:01 pm

Belinda wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:25 pm
Seleucus wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:01 pm
Belinda wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:21 am
Seleucus wrote:

... so you bought that ticket to Africa?

The whole world is being raped by the very rich and the difference between rich people and poor people is increasing.
Yes, that's why we all need to support ethnonationalism to resist the elites and their empire.
You might explain that in some detail.
The global elite are an internationalist cabal. Nationalism has been the foil against empire since the days of Byzantium and the Caliphate. That's why white nationalism is the central figure of media and elite demonization, Vietnamese or Korean nationalism is a problem for the globalist elite too, but it's the Whites who have the power and the intelligence most of all and who they need to be most worried about.

https://youtu.be/oemFQLKtvx4

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Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:23 pm

Seleucus wrote:The global elite are an internationalist cabal. ...
So what are Putin, Trump, Modi, et al, if not these elites?
p.s.
What's the bottle-blond got to do with anything?
Last edited by Arising_uk on Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Belinda
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Belinda » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:51 pm

Seleucus, I don't think that very rich people are a cabal.' Cabal 'indicates people who plot and plan in concert with each other. But elite rich people are individuals who often aim and succeed in robbing the poor for their own benefits with no desire to cooperate with other rich people unless it makes them richer . Tax evasion is one of the most obvious means by which they rob the poor. Arms manufacture is another way in which very rich people profit from capitalism. Every gun or tank made directly robs the poor of medicine or education.

There are some rich people who are nice people but this is despite, not because they are very rich.

You have an eccentric idea of what 'nationalism' means.
Do these shrill videos that you recommend impress you, or do you aim to impress others with them?

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Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:37 pm

Seleucus wrote:Other shibboleths might do almost as well, maybe eating with a fork? This is a lot more technical but amounts to just about the same thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_sound_laws ...
All it says is that at sometime in the past a lot of people spoke a common language. If you go further back you'll find that they also spoke another one.
That's all? So what stronger correlation could you possibly ask for than that dispersals of populations and distributions of languages go together?
But no causation eh! As all that is being said is that people move around and language spreads, well duh!
Or, to identify your own people if you are a Westerner, an amazing culture even if it has flaws, you could use a marker like use of the fork ...
So why don't you use the fork then?
You can play goody two shoes till you've ruined your country, ...
What on earth do you mean by 'goody two shoes'?
the simple fact is 3rd World people do not have conditioning that is required to do what it takes to make a modern state happen, ...
'3rd world people' and there was me thinking you'd actually read Spengler. They don't have to make a modern state happen over here, just sign-up to it.
we all love our identities and don't want to give them up, not in a million years -- almost literally, so if you let a gajillion Africans and Asians into your country, then pretty soon you're not gonna have a nice modern country anymore, you're gonna have a 3rd World garbage dump county. That's not racism, that's simple fact. ...
Good job we're not letting a gajillion in then but given the effects of climate change the human race is going to be moving about in very large numbers pretty soon so my take for my country is to have a system that can deal with such issues.
She's saying that there are Anglo-Saxon laws and housing styles and psychological structures found: and also Anglo-Saxon genetic markers. Because genetics and culture are tightly correlated. ...
There is no causation so far discovered to link genetics to such things.

What psychological structures? You mean Christianity that bonded the Angle and the Saxon in the face of the Dane?
Another interesting point to note is: Why did the English accept the culture of the Anglo-Saxon invaders, but the Iberians never accepted the culture of the Moslem invaders. ...
But they didn't did they, they were driven to the highlands.
A likely reason is difference, modern thinking is that the pre-Roman English were not Celts but Germanic people who had migrated in from around the area of what is today Belgium. ...
Well only likely by white-supremacist revisionists.
Hence they had little trouble with their brother and sister Germanic peoples migrating into the island. ...
:lol: You really have no idea about the history of these isles do you.
This is an important point to note as far as why Germans and Greeks and Irish could all get along in America, but when Mexicans and Muslims started showing up suddenly integration came to a hault and conflict exploded. ...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHVUPri5tjA
No. Smoke doesn't cause fire, it correlates, but obviously you wouldn't just toss something smoking into your house and say 'oh well, no risk of staring a fire, it's only smoking, there's no cause, just correlation....'
But there is a causation between some smoke and some fire whereas there is, so far, no causation between genetics and language.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:41 pm

Belinda wrote: http://time.com/91081/what-science-says ... -genetics/

Long and complex essay but well written.
That wasn't an essay but a book review and from what I can see a whole load of unproven assumptions.

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Re: Race versus culture

Post by Arising_uk » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:49 pm

Seleucus wrote:...
The irony of your comment! You do realize not a meter has been added in 75 years to the rail lines laid down by the Dutch in what is today Indonesia, that the French lines in Cambodia no longer run, and that nothing much has been built in Africa besides what the Chinese are laying down in East Africa today?

Nice article here about how the Nepal-India line is running for the first time this very year, 2017, since the end of colonial times: https://thewire.in/147940/nepal-colonial-era-rail-link/
:lol: You're so conveniently selective - https://www.quora.com/History-of-India- ... he-British

Add to that that they're planning on building bullet trains and compare their rail system to America and I think it's clear who's the fat controller here. Then there's the fact that they have satellite launch capabilities, so European level then.

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