What do you think of Good-Samaritan laws?

Abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theory and other such hot topics.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Walker
Posts: 4021
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: What do you think of Good-Samaritan laws?

Post by Walker » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:16 pm

Well, this is not to say that folks are born as blank slates, but rather are born with tendencies, with samskaras activated by conditions.

Given her interest in culling mankind, likely in M. Sanger’s early scientific, progressive and utilitarian view of such behavior as the callous youths, the sadism gene is not recessive in all folks, and simply needs the proper conditions for activation, conditions such as poverty, the lack of education that statistically correlates with poverty, and the associated desperation motivating thought and action.

Causes for lack of education vary, but when educational facilities are made available then that’s one less variable to consider. The fact is, throughout time a lot of folks have felt intellectual fire ignite in a sparse, one room schoolhouse with one teacher for all subjects, which is why the principle of university is not bound to the Jeffersonian model.

Neither is the principle bound to modern notions of corporate pyramid structure applied to tax-funded government schools, such as aping profit-based, CEO salaries for administrators.

commonsense
Posts: 174
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: Re:

Post by commonsense » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:53 am

Greta wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:47 am
I'm wondering what laws people here know of in their jurisdiction that compel people to call for help or authorities.

There have been many disputes regarding lawyer:client and doctor:patient privilege, where the state compels them to break professional confidentiality. Also ISPs. These obligations, though, are largely corporate. Are there any laws where individual civilians are compelled to lend assistance or call for help in their free time?
Hi Greta,

What follows is not meant to be argumentative. It is merely informational for those who would like to know what I learned in over 5 decades in healthcare, first as a nursing assistant, then as an LPN (Licensed Practical Nurse), then a PA-C (Certified Physician Assistant) and finally as a Clinical Instructor. (BTW, please excuse any aberrant spelling. grammar or vocabulary--very sleepy now.)

Duty to Rescue laws in the U.S. require certain professionals, such as paramedics, to render assistance for emergencies. Duty to Rescue laws do not apply to civilians. Whether these laws apply to professionals during their off-duty time is sometimes controversial.

Good Samaritan laws are intended to encourage civilians to render assistance, though not required to do so, in emergency situations. These laws provide legal protection from lawsuits over harm caused to an individual during a civilian’s attempt to provide assistance. Whether Good Samaritan laws apply to off-duty professionals is highly controversial and varies across U.S. jurisdictions.

I picked this out of Wikipedia, to confirm my understanding of Good Samaritan and Duty to Rescue laws:

Good Samaritan laws offer legal protection to people who give reasonable assistance to those who are, or who they believe to be, injured, ill, in peril, or otherwise incapacitated.[1] The protection is intended to reduce bystanders' hesitation to assist, for fear of being sued or prosecuted for unintentional injury or wrongful death. An example of such a law in common-law areas of Canada: a good Samaritan doctrine is a legal principle that prevents a rescuer who has voluntarily helped a victim in distress from being successfully sued for wrongdoing. Its purpose is to keep people from being reluctant to help a stranger in need for fear of legal repercussions should they make some mistake in treatment.[2] By contrast, a duty to rescue law requires people to offer assistance, and holds those who fail to do so liable.

I would like to continue to discuss Duty to Rescue laws and/or broaden the discussion to include Good Samaritan laws as well. I am anxious to hear your thoughts, Greta, as to which direction we should go.

User avatar
Greta
Posts: 2653
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Re:

Post by Greta » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:03 am

Commonsense, the laws and rationales as explained (very well) by you make sense to me.

I have few skills that would be useful in life-and-death situations, so I have about as much right to speak about how others with those skills respond to emergencies as straight people have to dictate the terms of relationships between gay people.

Increasingly busy and condensed societies require that, for the sake of peace, it's essential that people back off somewhat - to resist the urge to be busybodies and to allow experts and stakeholders decide for themselves without adding uninformed noise. For instance, you have long been a stakeholder and qualify as an expert in this issue, so your opinion on this is worth much more than mine.

I do appreciate that my attitude flies in the face of the postmodern neoconservative trend of believing that every voter's opinion is of value, no matter how ignorant the voter may be of the subject matter. While all of this would be ideally so blindingly obvious that it need not be said, it's a new world where the lessons in logic from the ancient Greeks appear to have been somewhat forgotten and now need reiteration.

User avatar
PauloL
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:12 pm
Location: Lisbon, Portugal.

Re: What do you think of Good-Samaritan laws?

Post by PauloL » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:16 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:58 am
I've been seeing a lot of debate about this on facebook because of a case that recently happened in florida. If you're not aware, the gist of it is two teens basically recorded a man drowning and didn't call anyone to help, or even reported the death afterwards. No charges were brought up since the state doesn't legally require that you report someone who is in danger. They may have fallen into some grey area because they filmed the death, but that's beside the point.

The coverage around this has been pretty relentless, mostly blaming the fact that florida doesn't already have a law in place to prevent something like this. It's frustrated me more than I thought it would because I honestly never gave it much thought. While I certainly agree with the 'principle' of reporting something like this, I don't agree with the spirit of the law around it. In a more personal sense, of course wouldn't want anyone I know to die from a death that could have been prevented, but I'm worried about the potential this has to be implemented for different laws; Let's say I know one of my friends is in possession of weed, do I now face criminal persecution if I don't turn him in? If I see someone do a hit and run, should I have to be the one to call the cops? How about if I'm in a gas station and I see someone steal a candy-bar, I don't give a single shit about the shrink rate of corporate predators like walgreens or CVS so why should the law force me to when I'm not even the one breaking it?

Obviously I consider it a slippery slope and these are some what-if scenerios. But I'm looking at it in terms of legal consistency
and how the government might see it in order to further implement the same standard to other things they've already established as wrong. Essentially the civilians become the cops.
Just for the asking, what do Good Samaritan Laws have to do with the case?

For the case, it's really strange that Florida doesn't have such laws you mention. In Europe they'd be prosecuted and faced prison or reformatory depending on age, as the law sets forth an obligation of aid and assistance under penalty of criminal action. Filming someone dying likely would face criminal action, too.

User avatar
Sir-Sister-of-Suck
Posts: 479
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:09 am

Re: What do you think of Good-Samaritan laws?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:38 am

PauloL wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:16 am
Just for the asking, what do Good Samaritan Laws have to do with the case?
I made this thread a while ago, but it was more like what it didn't have to do; People were calling for Florida to implement good-Samaritan laws in order to prosecute people like these teens
For the case, it's really strange that Florida doesn't have such laws you mention. In Europe they'd be prosecuted and faced prison or reformatory depending on age, as the law sets forth an obligation of aid and assistance under penalty of criminal action. Filming someone dying likely would face criminal action, too.
I just don't see what incentive or purpose sending them to prison would serve. It doesn't, in any way, help to prevent that same person from committing another crime because that person didn't 'commit' anything in the first place. I guess it makes more sense for a Socialist country, where the collective is legally obligated to help each individual, but I don't see any consequential reason for it. You're sending someone to prison for literally doing nothing, within a given scenario. If prison is meant as a deterrent that prevents the same crime or rehabilitates, I don't see how this does anything.

User avatar
PauloL
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:12 pm
Location: Lisbon, Portugal.

Re: What do you think of Good-Samaritan laws?

Post by PauloL » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:04 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:38 am
PauloL wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:16 am
Just for the asking, what do Good Samaritan Laws have to do with the case?
I made this thread a while ago, but it was more like what it didn't have to do; People were calling for Florida to implement good-Samaritan laws in order to prosecute people like these teens
For the case, it's really strange that Florida doesn't have such laws you mention. In Europe they'd be prosecuted and faced prison or reformatory depending on age, as the law sets forth an obligation of aid and assistance under penalty of criminal action. Filming someone dying likely would face criminal action, too.
I just don't see what incentive or purpose sending them to prison would serve. It doesn't, in any way, help to prevent that same person from committing another crime because that person didn't 'commit' anything in the first place. I guess it makes more sense for a Socialist country, where the collective is legally obligated to help each individual, but I don't see any consequential reason for it. You're sending someone to prison for literally doing nothing, within a given scenario. If prison is meant as a deterrent that prevents the same crime or rehabilitates, I don't see how this does anything.
Socialist country? What does that have to do with socialism? It's individual for individual if you like. You can't simply watch someone in danger and do nothing. If you don't see how prison deters or rehabilitate, then you have a lot to learn before asking questions. It seems US people are not really prepared to fly abroad. Outside US you'll face prison if you see someone in danger and do nothing, if you steal propaganda posters, and if you carry guns. I think you need basic instruction in the first place.

Good-Samaritan Laws are used just the opposite way. To prevent someone helping another person from being charged with faults. It's in force in some American states to protect doctors who offer assistance in case of emergency outside hospitals from being sued.
Last edited by PauloL on Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sir-Sister-of-Suck
Posts: 479
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:09 am

Re: What do you think of Good-Samaritan laws?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:10 am

PauloL wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:04 am
Socialist country? What does that have to do with socialism? It's individual for individual if you like.
Mostly a bit of a jab. I mean, in countries where there's already more legal emphasis on taking care of the collective state with taxes and all, I guess it makes to sense to extend that to this level and send them to prison if you don't.
You can't simply watch someone in danger and do nothing. If you don't see how prison deters or rehabilitate, then you have a lot to learn before asking questions. It seems US people are not really prepared to fly abroad. Outside US you'll face prison if you see someone in danger and do nothing, if you steal propaganda posters, and if you carry guns. I think you need basic instruction in the first place.
Well no, my only point is that in this particular circumstance, sending someone to prison for rehabilitation on what they didn't do doesn't seem to make a difference.

User avatar
PauloL
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:12 pm
Location: Lisbon, Portugal.

Re: What do you think of Good-Samaritan laws?

Post by PauloL » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:11 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:10 am
I have nothing else to add. Basic instruction.

User avatar
PauloL
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:12 pm
Location: Lisbon, Portugal.

Re: What do you think of Good-Samaritan laws?

Post by PauloL » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:22 am

Just as an example, from the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (also ratified by the USA):

Article 98
Duty to render assistance
1. Every State shall require the master of a ship flying its flag, in so far
as he can do so without serious danger to the ship, the crew or the passengers:
(a) to render assistance to any person found at sea in danger of
being lost;

(b) to proceed with all possible speed to the rescue of persons in
distress
, if informed of their need of assistance, in so far as such
action may reasonably be expected of him;
(c) after a collision, to render assistance to the other ship, its crew
and its passengers
and, where possible, to inform the other ship
of the name of his own ship, its port of registry and the nearest
port at which it will call.
2. Every coastal State shall promote the establishment, operation and
maintenance of an adequate and effective search and rescue service regarding
safety on and over the sea and, where circumstances so require, by way of
mutual regional arrangements cooperate with neighbouring States for this
purpose.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests