Roger Scruton likes Dirty Dancing - Shock, Horror !

[marjoram_blues]

Jive talkin’: top philosopher says modern dance has lost its soul
Professor Roger Scruton bemoans the way formal dances have been replaced by ‘jerking like a frog’

Across the country on New Year’s Eve, people will take to dance floors to groove away the last hours of 2015. But one of Britain’s most eminent philosophers is unlikely to be among the masses of humanity moving to a techno beat.

Roger Scruton, author of more than 40 books and a noted authority on aesthetics, has used his latest work to offer a withering critique of much of modern dancing. In Confessions of a Heretic, a collection of essays to be published in the spring, Scruton takes issue with the dancing witnessed in the nation’s clubs and pubs, in which participants “jerk on to the floor in obedience to the puppet master at the desk”. Modern dancers, he notes, also “tend to avoid contact with each other, since there is no agreed convention as to what form their contact should take”.

In the essay, entitled Dancing Properly, he continues: “They are dancing at each other. The difference between ‘at’ and ‘with’ is one of the deepest psychological differences we know. It is exemplified in all our encounters with other people – notably in conversation and in sexual gambits …
Asked whether he would be attending a dance of any kind during the holiday season, Scruton confessed that his decision will be taken not solely on aesthetic grounds. “At my age, 71, it rather depends on my knees. If there’s a local reeling party, I might go to that.”


- Dalya Alberge in: http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015 ... dern-dance

First off, is Roger Scruton a 'top philosopher'; second - what the hell does he know about modern dancing and the way people move?
And why does he bring this up now - did he write it in the 60's and just decide it would do for his latest book?
Would you invite the old codger to your party?

[Walker]

In the essay, entitled Dancing Properly, he continues: “They are dancing at each other. The difference between ‘at’ and ‘with’ is one of the deepest psychological differences we know. It is exemplified in all our encounters with other people – notably in conversation and in sexual gambits …

States of Dance Being

1 The Crowd
2 Alone in a crowd
3 Together in a crowd

(together in a crowd always numbers 3)


"Love is the meaning and purpose of duality."
- Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

[marjoram_blues]

In the essay, entitled Dancing Properly, he continues: “They are dancing at each other. The difference between ‘at’ and ‘with’ is one of the deepest psychological differences we know. It is exemplified in all our encounters with other people – notably in conversation and in sexual gambits …

States of Dance Being

1 The Crowd
2 Alone in a crowd
3 Together in a crowd

(together in a crowd always numbers 3)


"Love is the meaning and purpose of duality."
- Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Why does this feel like a seriously choreographed move ?



'Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your living room' - Kurt Vonnegut

[Obvious Leo]

I've never been on a dance floor whilst sober so I better reserve judgement on this subject.

[tbieter]

Jive talkin’: top philosopher says modern dance has lost its soul
Professor Roger Scruton bemoans the way formal dances have been replaced by ‘jerking like a frog’

Across the country on New Year’s Eve, people will take to dance floors to groove away the last hours of 2015. But one of Britain’s most eminent philosophers is unlikely to be among the masses of humanity moving to a techno beat.

Roger Scruton, author of more than 40 books and a noted authority on aesthetics, Note well has used his latest work to offer a withering critique of much of modern dancing. In Confessions of a Heretic, a collection of essays to be published in the spring, Scruton takes issue with the dancing witnessed in the nation’s clubs and pubs, in which participants “jerk on to the floor in obedience to the puppet master at the desk”. Modern dancers, he notes, also “tend to avoid contact with each other, since there is no agreed convention as to what form their contact should take”.

In the essay, entitled Dancing Properly, he continues: “They are dancing at each other. The difference between ‘at’ and ‘with’ is one of the deepest psychological differences we know. It is exemplified in all our encounters with other people – notably in conversation and in sexual gambits …
Asked whether he would be attending a dance of any kind during the holiday season, Scruton confessed that his decision will be taken not solely on aesthetic grounds. “At my age, 71, it rather depends on my knees. If there’s a local reeling party, I might go to that.”


- Dalya Alberge in: http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015 ... dern-dance

First off, is Roger Scruton see above a top philosopher second - what the hell does he know about modern dancing and the way people move? Have you read any of his books?
And why does he bring this up now - did he write it in the 60's and just decide it would do for his latest book? irrelevant
Would you invite the old codger to your party?

Yes, I would love the opportunity to talk to him.

I have one of his books before me. I'll start reading it soon. It is: http://www.amazon.com/Art-Imagination-S ... er+scruton

[marjoram_blues]

Jive talkin’: top philosopher says modern dance has lost its soul
Professor Roger Scruton bemoans the way formal dances have been replaced by ‘jerking like a frog’

Across the country on New Year’s Eve, people will take to dance floors to groove away the last hours of 2015. But one of Britain’s most eminent philosophers is unlikely to be among the masses of humanity moving to a techno beat.

Roger Scruton, author of more than 40 books and a noted authority on aesthetics, Note well has used his latest work to offer a withering critique of much of modern dancing. In Confessions of a Heretic, a collection of essays to be published in the spring, Scruton takes issue with the dancing witnessed in the nation’s clubs and pubs, in which participants “jerk on to the floor in obedience to the puppet master at the desk”. Modern dancers, he notes, also “tend to avoid contact with each other, since there is no agreed convention as to what form their contact should take”.

In the essay, entitled Dancing Properly, he continues: “They are dancing at each other. The difference between ‘at’ and ‘with’ is one of the deepest psychological differences we know. It is exemplified in all our encounters with other people – notably in conversation and in sexual gambits …
Asked whether he would be attending a dance of any kind during the holiday season, Scruton confessed that his decision will be taken not solely on aesthetic grounds. “At my age, 71, it rather depends on my knees. If there’s a local reeling party, I might go to that.”


- Dalya Alberge in: http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015 ... dern-dance

First off, is Roger Scruton see above a top philosopher second - what the hell does he know about modern dancing and the way people move? Have you read any of his books?
And why does he bring this up now - did he write it in the 60's and just decide it would do for his latest book? irrelevant
Would you invite the old codger to your party?

Yes, I would love the opportunity to talk to him.

I have one of his books before me. I'll start reading it soon. It is: http://www.amazon.com/Art-Imagination-S ... er+scruton

Hello tbieter. It is no surprise to me that you are a fan of Scruton. Enjoy your book. I have read as much of Scruton as I could bear; he is not to my taste. You don't have to have read his books to ask questions of him and his views on Dancing. It is perfectly right to question the relevance of this 'essay' which forms part of a new book. He is known to rehash his elitist opinions. If people want to re-read same old, same old then good luck to them. For him, it's easy money.

He may well be a noted authority on aesthetics in some narrow field which is forever England and he may well be rated as a 'top philosopher' by a certain set of old crow conservatives. However, given previous episodes of dishonesty *, his love of fox-hunting - Scruton could just as easily be described as a snobby, toffy piece of work who is isolated in his own narrow perspective.

Edit to add:* as per Wikipedia entry.

[marjoram_blues]

I've never been on a dance floor whilst sober so I better reserve judgement on this subject.

I think only professional dancers keep sober
Come on, don't be shy. If Scruton can opine on dancing, then anyone can.

[Obvious Leo]

Come on, don't be shy. If Scruton can opine on dancing, then anyone can.

OK then. As an aspiring sensitive new age bloke I reckon that consenting adults should be allowed to manhandle each other as they see fit, as long as they don't do it in the street and frighten the horses. I'll be the bloke observing the proceedings with interest from the sidelines, most probably talking shit to whomever might be silly enough to listen and getting quietly pissed in the process.

[marjoram_blues]

Come on, don't be shy. If Scruton can opine on dancing, then anyone can.

OK then. As an aspiring sensitive new age bloke I reckon that consenting adults should be allowed to manhandle each other as they see fit, as long as they don't do it in the street and frighten the horses. I'll be the bloke observing the proceedings with interest from the sidelines, most probably talking shit to whomever might be silly enough to listen and getting quietly pissed in the process.

Och come on Leo - you can do better than that...
This is about a view of traditional, formation-type dancing ( with its 'withness') v modern, solo dancing (with its 'atness').
Scruton sees modern dancing ( as he imagines it ) as the epitomy of lack of courtesy and the dying of old-fashioned civility of men leading and touching. The 'Ladies', of course, being thrilled by the connection and the pride of being asked. Basically, a pairing of lost ideals and a higher purpose.

Scruton, apparently sees modern dancing as a rude jerking of a frog. No 'with-ness'...more 'at-ness' with no sense of connection.

I think he has a rather limited perspective on dancing. He criticises modern stuff which doesn't fit with his conservative ideal. I doubt he even knows how the other half live. Or how people can dance solo and still have a feel for fellow dancers. Being 'with' them, in the sense of having a connection to the music. Doing their thing, but together. Or simply dancing in the dark...no dance floor required.

He bemoans that there is 'no agreed convention' -
So, what of it - has he never heard of freedom of expression.

[Obvious Leo]

MB. What little I know of Scruton is very little indeed. However it's adequate for me to conclude that any opinion expressed which runs contrary to his would in all likelihood be the more enlightened one. I went to an all boys boarding school where learning ballroom dancing was a part of the curriculum. Unfortunately there were no young ladies on hand for the randy lads to grab hold of so we had to dance with other blokes and then take turns at dancing the female role. It goes without saying that I was scarred for life by the experience and I still get a shiver down my spine when I recall these traumatic events.