Would the World be Better if Everyone Turned the other Cheek?

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Eodnhoj7
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Would the World be Better if Everyone Turned the other Cheek?

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

I look around and everyone, both on this forum and in real life, is accusing someone else of some wrong. The truth is that all of us, myself included, do not know what we are really doing.

What would happen in society if people just let people strike them, verbally or physically, and did not respond but kept going? Is simply turning the other cheek the only viable solution for our times?

I know I am guilty of verbally or physically lashing out at people, however even when I "win" I still notice that I still lose. Is it time people are just frank with themselves and admit noone knows what they are doing, because all the things we "know", do not appear to work?

Is mercy the only justifiable solution, considering we are all brothers and sisters stuck with eachother whether we like it or not?
Nick_A
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Re: Would the World be Better if Everyone Turned the other Cheek?

Post by Nick_A »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:09 am I look around and everyone, both on this forum and in real life, is accusing someone else of some wrong. The truth is that all of us, myself included, do not know what we are really doing.

What would happen in society if people just let people strike them, verbally or physically, and did not respond but kept going? Is simply turning the other cheek the only viable solution for our times?

I know I am guilty of verbally or physically lashing out at people, however even when I "win" I still notice that I still lose. Is it time people are just frank with themselves and admit noone knows what they are doing, because all the things we "know", do not appear to work?

Is mercy the only justifiable solution, considering we are all brothers and sisters stuck with eachother whether we like it or not?
The only result would be dead people and people in slavery. You are suggesting what isn't wanted by the majority and only a small minority would be capable of..Simone Weil explains:
"Let us not think that because we are less brutal, less violent, less
inhuman than our opponents we will carry the day. Brutality,
violence, and inhumanity have an immense prestige that schoolbooks hide
from children, that grown men do not admit, but that everyone bows
before. For the opposite virtues to have as much prestige, they
must be actively and constantly put into practice. Anyone who is
merely incapable of being as brutal, as violent, and as inhuman as
someone else, but who does not practice the opposite virtues, is
inferior to that person in both inner strength and prestige, and he
will not hold out in . . . a confrontation." ~ Simone Weil
thata23
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Re: Would the World be Better if Everyone Turned the other Cheek?

Post by thata23 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:09 am
What would happen in society if people just let people strike them, verbally or physically, and did not respond but kept going? Is simply turning the other cheek the only viable solution for our times?

I know I am guilty of verbally or physically lashing out at people, however even when I "win" I still notice that I still lose. Is it time people are just frank with themselves and admit noone knows what they are doing, because all the things we "know", do not appear to work?

Is mercy the only justifiable solution, considering we are all brothers and sisters stuck with eachother whether we like it or not?
Yes, I agree. The people who keep going are on a higher mission to make society a better place, as they do not get caught up in petty arguments. How can society go wrong if everyone is on this same mission and just mutually agrees to let down their guard? I truly believe money would not even be needed as everyone would innately know what he/she needed to do and how to act to feel good going to sleep at night.
Celebritydiscodave2
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Re: Would the World be Better if Everyone Turned the other Cheek?

Post by Celebritydiscodave2 »

thata23 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:56 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:09 am
What would happen in society if people just let people strike them, verbally or physically, and did not respond but kept going? Is simply turning the other cheek the only viable solution for our times?

I know I am guilty of verbally or physically lashing out at people, however even when I "win" I still notice that I still lose. Is it time people are just frank with themselves and admit noone knows what they are doing, because all the things we "know", do not appear to work?

Is mercy the only justifiable solution, considering we are all brothers and sisters stuck with eachother whether we like it or not?
Yes, I agree. The people who keep going are on a higher mission to make society a better place, as they do not get caught up in petty arguments. How can society go wrong if everyone is on this same mission and just mutually agrees to let down their guard? I truly believe money would not even be needed as everyone would innately know what he/she needed to do and how to act to feel good going to sleep at night.
We are individuals, not a world of people all sharing of this same mission, and before this could happen we`d all have to be the same person anyway, which surely defeats any point. Humans are not idealist, so our ideals would then only be applicable to some new imaginary race. If everyone turned the other cheek there would be rapes, violence, and looting on the streets, we function the way that we function for a reason. To make ginormous changes to our social functionality like this would have far reaching consequences, and not necessarily all the ones which you read about in fairy tales either. There exists an overall equilibrium in terms of human dealing which keeps a society functioning relatively normally.
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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk »

What would happen in society if people just let people strike them, verbally or physically, and did not respond but kept going?

You can say (write) whatever you like, to me...it's just words.

Lay hands on me, though, and we're gonna have a significant problem, you and me.
Nick_A
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Re:

Post by Nick_A »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:36 pm What would happen in society if people just let people strike them, verbally or physically, and did not respond but kept going?

You can say (write) whatever you like, to me...it's just words.

Lay hands on me, though, and we're gonna have a significant problem, you and me.
That is a politically incorrect response. The proper current approach is to complain to the authorities and accuse the perpetrator of sexual harassment. Don't be part of the problem; be part of the solution as an educated modern man.
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henry quirk
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That is a politically incorrect response.

Post by henry quirk »

Absolutely.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Nick_A wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:59 pm
henry quirk wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:36 pm What would happen in society if people just let people strike them, verbally or physically, and did not respond but kept going?

You can say (write) whatever you like, to me...it's just words.

Lay hands on me, though, and we're gonna have a significant problem, you and me.
That is a politically incorrect response. The proper current approach is to complain to the authorities and accuse the perpetrator of sexual harassment. Don't be part of the problem; be part of the solution as an educated modern man.
And who started all that OTT crap? The land of do-anything-for-money-and/or-attention?
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Would the World be Better if Everyone Turned the other Cheek?

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Nick_A wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:57 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:09 am I look around and everyone, both on this forum and in real life, is accusing someone else of some wrong. The truth is that all of us, myself included, do not know what we are really doing.

What would happen in society if people just let people strike them, verbally or physically, and did not respond but kept going? Is simply turning the other cheek the only viable solution for our times?

I know I am guilty of verbally or physically lashing out at people, however even when I "win" I still notice that I still lose. Is it time people are just frank with themselves and admit noone knows what they are doing, because all the things we "know", do not appear to work?

Is mercy the only justifiable solution, considering we are all brothers and sisters stuck with eachother whether we like it or not?
The only result would be dead people and people in slavery. You are suggesting what isn't wanted by the majority and only a small minority would be capable of..Simone Weil explains:

But their are dead people regardless. What Ghandi observed, did it fail entirely?
"Let us not think that because we are less brutal, less violent, less
inhuman than our opponents we will carry the day. Brutality,
violence, and inhumanity have an immense prestige that schoolbooks hide
from children, that grown men do not admit, but that everyone bows
before. For the opposite virtues to have as much prestige, they
must be actively and constantly put into practice. Anyone who is
merely incapable of being as brutal, as violent, and as inhuman as
someone else, but who does not practice the opposite virtues, is
inferior to that person in both inner strength and prestige, and he
will not hold out in . . . a confrontation." ~ Simone Weil
Celebritydiscodave2
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Re: Would the World be Better if Everyone Turned the other Cheek?

Post by Celebritydiscodave2 »

Very small adjustments to how society functions might just in places be plausible, but more than this would invariably bring the whole wall crashing down, it would cause waves some of which impossible to predict.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Would the World be Better if Everyone Turned the other Cheek?

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Celebritydiscodave2 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:12 am
thata23 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:56 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:09 am
What would happen in society if people just let people strike them, verbally or physically, and did not respond but kept going? Is simply turning the other cheek the only viable solution for our times?

I know I am guilty of verbally or physically lashing out at people, however even when I "win" I still notice that I still lose. Is it time people are just frank with themselves and admit noone knows what they are doing, because all the things we "know", do not appear to work?

Is mercy the only justifiable solution, considering we are all brothers and sisters stuck with eachother whether we like it or not?
Yes, I agree. The people who keep going are on a higher mission to make society a better place, as they do not get caught up in petty arguments. How can society go wrong if everyone is on this same mission and just mutually agrees to let down their guard? I truly believe money would not even be needed as everyone would innately know what he/she needed to do and how to act to feel good going to sleep at night.
We are individuals, not a world of people all sharing of this same mission, and before this could happen we`d all have to be the same person anyway, which surely defeats any point.
Individuality and Unity can coexist. We observe people have specific places within society as individuals, while simultaneously being a part of something greater.


Humans are not idealist, so our ideals would then only be applicable to some new imaginary race.
And physical stunts are not ideas based on numbers?

If everyone turned the other cheek there would be rapes, violence, and looting on the streets, we function the way that we function for a reason.
If everyone turned the other cheek then how could their be rape, violence, looting, etc. People have the right to defend themselves, however often times people put up walls against imaginary threats.

If someone punches me and it does not hurt me, should I hit back? Now if my life was on the line, of course I have the right to defend myself...but are our lives always on the line?

If someone insults me...do I die?

To make ginormous changes to our social functionality like this would have far reaching consequences, and not necessarily all the ones which you read about in fairy tales either. There exists an overall equilibrium in terms of human dealing which keeps a society functioning relatively normally.

People would not except this option until perpetual struggle weaned their pride away. The simple truth is we make up ideas in order to compare ourselves to others. Sports, fashions, social media technology are all made up ways in which we compare ourselves. They are made up measurement systems that have no application to anything other than self-objectification.
thata23
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Re: Would the World be Better if Everyone Turned the other Cheek?

Post by thata23 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:15 am
People would not except this option until perpetual struggle weaned their pride away. The simple truth is we make up ideas in order to compare ourselves to others. Sports, fashions, social media technology are all made up ways in which we compare ourselves. They are made up measurement systems that have no application to anything other than self-objectification.
Exactly, it's fun to think of ourselves as complete individuals, but if we think about it deeper that's just not the case and all of us are connected and our actions affect each other. These divisions we create (money, borders, corporations, etc.) are counterproductive: if we were all 100% transparent and unselfish and recognized everyone as true equals (with unique qualities, yes, but at the end of the day striving for the same goal), humanity would progress at a much faster rate.
Celebritydiscodave2
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Re: Would the World be Better if Everyone Turned the other Cheek?

Post by Celebritydiscodave2 »

Humanity would obviously be better off if it were to deal in exclusively positive currency of interaction, and of being, but because humanity is made up of only human beings, not some entirely different specie, we would simply not be able to sustain function which was solely positive. As for accepting that we are all broadly the same person, that`s totally at odds with what it is to be human, and the constant struggle for difference is simply endemic, the perception of it at least. In actuality the struggle is for being the same. Taking money from the equation would be a huge spanner in the works of this proposed inter specie leap. Money is not evil in and of itself, not on any level negative, it actually facilitates each and every individuals better being.
dorothea
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Re: Would the World be Better if Everyone Turned the other Cheek?

Post by dorothea »

Seems to me Hobbes has the definitive answer here. He responded to those who accused him of being cynical and not trusting to the innate goodness of people by saying - fine - when you go to sleep or leave your house you lock your doors, even though you know there are law officers about. Even when in your home you lock chests against servants and children: 'Do you not thereby accuse mankind by your actions as I do by my words?' We can update Hobbes' taunt by asking those who hope for a time when we can trust one another - Do you lock your house and car? Do you write your passwords and PINs up in the kitchen where visitors and children can see them? As to the original suggestion that we might be nicer and more tolerant online - even on this cool dispassionate philosophical site there are some rowdy exchanges. Online sites seem to exaggerate the inherent nastiness in some people and the natural compassion in others (like religions do?). Pessimism is realistic, no?
Celebritydiscodave2
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Re: Would the World be Better if Everyone Turned the other Cheek?

Post by Celebritydiscodave2 »

Why are children being singled out as a group not to be trusted though? I believe the calculating mind to be least trustworthy, at least it is less to be anticipated (which is most of the problem), and with this in mind perhaps adults require considerably greater scrutiny than children.
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