On Darkness

[Eodnhoj7]

That is because we live in a society of perpetual adolescence. We are not aloud to "grow up" even if we wanted to (millenials I am speaking for) and if we do, and I want to emphasize "if", then in general it is a continual fight uphill to maintain any balance.

Could you expand on this some more? I'm interested to hear what the life experience looks like from the millennial's perspective.

Haha, it's tough to tell what the age range is on line...I assumed falsely you were a millenial.

Well I will observe it from three different categories:

Work, food, sex:

Work:

The whole mentality of "work hard and keep your head down" does not work. Either I produce too much and put my peers to shame (causing tension with my peers) or I do not work hard at all and am forced to spend the day making perpetual jokes and acting like a child.

I have lost jobs for keeping my head down and shutting up. I have kept jobs for being "the clown" and barely working.

The problem occurs in the respect that for the jobs I did keep for "keeping my head down and shutting" resulted in alot of tension with peers as I produced more than they did. This in turn causes problems as tension mounts over time and these peers eventually cause "problems" within the work environment itself.

On the other hand if I clown around and barely work, I get along with my peers just fine: however I have to make "dick" jokes all day in order to keep them entertained and fundamentally take the role of a babysitter.

That and if you do a good job at what you are doing, they will keep you at where you are at without diversifying the necessary training required to move up to management position.


Food:

I may want to eat healthy, however the options due to work or timing, result in me having to pick from poor health options. The common sense of approach of "eat all types of food in moderation" ends up with the real life choice of "do you want fries with that burger?"

In order to eat healthy one has to limit their options (which equates to barely eating at all) bring food from home and pre cook it (which takes up alot of time if you do it on your own) or live off of "health shakes" and spend the day chewing gum.

The problem of "eating healthy" in today's world is that it makes you stronger than the people you work around because all their diet's are poor. So if a hard day of work, by someone else's standard, is easy for you then it causes further tension because they decided to down 3 energy drinks and 210 grams of sugar and you did not.

Sex:

The whole mentality of starting a family is not a real option. Generally speaking, guys who grew up with a "high-school" sweetheart eventually lose her to facebook friends who are "continually partying", leaving for better economic opportunities while she pursues college, or trying to find a girl which has not slept with the majority of guys you already know.

Those who got married young are going through divorces because their wives are unsatisfied because of perpetual bombarded from social media telling them: "You are not happy until you buy "x""

Now I am speaking as a 28 year old man. The women have it worse than I do because generally speaking they cannot deal with the pressure without having friends to support them...and none of them have friends, just partners in misery.

I have seen and heard of people, millenials, losing it over absolutely "nothing" because they are so stretch thin (intellectually, emotionally, physically) they cannot process a basic task. On the other end, you get the spoiled type who complain about everything. Our generation is defined through "polarity" and nothing more.

Now the above is an overly brief summary, one in which I do not like, however it breaks down to this:

Work hard and move up does not work.
Settle down and start a family is a rare option.
Eating healthy is full time job in itself.

You want to go out on the night and have fun? It is difficult to do when everyone is either on facebook or going into despair driven drug/drinking bouts. And when you go out noone really does anything except look at their phone.

The simple solution, for a millenial man who is looking for balance is simply just walk away and let society eat itself. America will not rise again because all the men, "who wanted to grow up" had no real community to integrate with in this manner. The modern society is strictly a bunch of children fighting with each other over petty "nothingness".

Noone is "smart", noone is "dumb", everyone is stagnating under a perpetual pool of "distraction" waiting for "time to go by" until...what exactly noone knows...death maybe?

People who rage against groups of people -- saying that those people are destroying the earth -- make me think of the hysteria and hateful ignorance of The Christian Crusades.

It is not just the Christains, but the Muslims, Buddhists, Scientists, Atheists...etc. It is mankind in general.

Yes, I was speaking of ALL people who rage against groups of people. It also applies to political parties, generational divides, territorial divides, etc. The crescendo of madness and lack of reason it can generate is what makes me think of the Crusades -- and it is done with the guise of being supreme and noble, while laying waste to that which it doesn't understand. It seems easier to try to physically destroy that which we don't want to consider and include -- and that just makes us dumber.

All forms of adaptation require a degree of "synthesis". When one faces something that is contradictory in nature, or negates, their viewpoint it is quite impossible to "negate a negation" except through a "positive". This positive approach requires one to synthesis both positive and negative results into one truer form which allows both realities to coexist and maintain balance.

Violence, while having its place, is inevitably a sign of weakness as the only recourse is to allow the "evil to play itself through" or destroy itself. In this respect nothing is ever really achieved other than a nullification.

The ancient greeks viewed war not so much in the terms of "good vs. evil" but rather as a "punishment" from the gods.

[Lacewing]

...

That was an interesting read... thank you!

I can see the challenges you're talking about.

It's as if the expansion of options over the course of mankind's expanding development has created overwhelming noise and competition, which brings the challenge of maintaining clarity and focus. However, we can see that the alternative of narrowing in on one focus can be limiting and intoxicating (even delusional). It is quite the trip to have clarity and stay balanced amidst all of it.

That's what I envision humankind's next evolutionary stage to be: Possessing the ability to move amongst infinite choices/possibilities, free of limited/restricted attachment, but with clarity and balance for our dynamic creations within that vastness. In other words... having a lot more fun with infinite potential.

But right now, we seem to be experiencing a mega-force clash of worlds and ideas. The reality of possibility is now SO MUCH larger than the archaic systems we've built everything on, and that we continue trying to function in. It's like being set down on a new planet, in a straightjacket. People don't know how to get free to explore a totally new landscape. So they're fighting with each other and perhaps pretending that small, old, limited things/ideas are all there is. For some, it might seem like all we can do is wait for someone/something to bring sense to all of it. Seems like this mix of chemicals is about to react though. It's really wild. I try to have clarity in each new interaction/circumstance, regardless of what has come before. Clarity and balance and humor are my guiding principles... without which I think I would get sucked into a mire or void.

The relationship/singles scene is really weird right now too. Which I guess isn't that surprising since people don't know what role they're supposed to play -- and they want an option that fits them specifically because they're used to having such options in many other ways. I think we have to connect in whole new ways as friends and partners -- more like equal spirits who want to inspire/support the best for all involved, rather than basing everything on archaic roles and scripts. And yes, looking at a phone is a shallow, flat experience compared to looking directly and deeply into the soulful eyes of another. There is SO MUCH THERE that we seem to be shying away from!

Violence, while having its place, is inevitably a sign of weakness as the only recourse is to allow the "evil to play itself through" or destroy itself. In this respect nothing is ever really achieved other than a nullification.

The ancient greeks viewed war not so much in the terms of "good vs. evil" but rather as a "punishment" from the gods.

Agreed. Violence and war are weak, small-minded uses of energy, ravenously fed by and for ego, laying waste to broader thinking.

[Eodnhoj7]

...

That was an interesting read... thank you!

I can see the challenges you're talking about.

It's as if the expansion of options over the course of mankind's expanding development, has created overwhelming noise and competition, which brings the challenge of maintaining clarity and focus. However, we can see that the alternative of narrowing in on one focus can be limiting and intoxicating (even delusional). It is quite the trip to have clarity and stay balanced amidst all of it.

Yes.

That's what I envision humankind's next evolutionary stage to be: Possessing the ability to move amongst infinite choices/possibilities, free of limited/restricted attachment, but with clarity and balance for our dynamic creations within that vastness. In other words... having a lot more fun with infinite potential.

I would argue that to transcend "potential" would be a better goal as potentiality implies an "unactualized" degree of reality. This would require some "apocalyptic" event where man is revealed to himself for who and what he is...whatever that may be.

But right now, we seem to be experiencing a mega-force clash of worlds and ideas. The reality of possibility is now SO MUCH larger than the archaic systems we've built everything on, and that we continue trying to function in. It's like being set down on a new planet, in a straightjacket. People don't know how to get free to explore a totally new landscape. So they're fighting with each other and perhaps pretending that small, old, limited things/ideas are all there is. For some, it might seem like all we can do is wait for someone/something to bring sense to all of it. Seems like this mix of chemicals is about to react though. It's really wild. I try to have clarity in each new interaction/circumstance, regardless of what has come before. Clarity and balance and humor are my guiding principles... without which I think I would get sucked into a mire or void.

That sums it up fine. These are chaotic times...to put it briefly.

The relationship/singles scene is really weird right now too. Which I guess isn't that surprising since people don't know what role they're supposed to play -- and they want an option that fits them specifically because they're used to having such options in many other ways.
That sums it up also...there are no "roles" anymore. In many respects modern feminism has resorted to putting women into slave labor that feeds a welfare system mostly dominated by men. Modern feminism, ironically, put women back into a kitchen that she sought to get out of. Corporate sponsored feminism has no intention of empowering women, but rather reducing them to slave labor.

I think we have to connect in whole new ways as friends and partners -- more like equal spirits who want to inspire/support the best for all involved, rather than basing everything on archaic roles and scripts. And yes, looking at a phone is a shallow, flat experience compared to looking directly and deeply into the soulful eyes of another. There is SO MUCH THERE that we seem to be shying away from!

The whole relationship aspect of today's culture is...well I am not sure it really exists. For how strange it may sound, and I am talking both from personal experience and what I have observed around me, it is easier to "get laid" than it is to start a family. (not that starting a family is the best option for everyone, this is just a weak analogy to show how "inverted" we are and the warped values both sexes have of eachother).

Violence, while having its place, is inevitably a sign of weakness as the only recourse is to allow the "evil to play itself through" or destroy itself. In this respect nothing is ever really achieved other than a nullification.

The ancient greeks viewed war not so much in the terms of "good vs. evil" but rather as a "punishment" from the gods.

Agreed. Violence and war are weak, small-minded uses of energy, ravenously fed by and for ego, laying waste to broader thinking.

The problem is that they feed the vary industries we rely on to survive.

[Lacewing]

I would argue that to transcend "potential" would be a better goal as potentiality implies an "unactualized" degree of reality.

How can we ever transcend potential in an ever-expanding world? I'm not suggesting we be slaves to the IDEA of potential. I'm saying that we recognize that we're never at an ultimate truth/conclusion, and that nothing is ever closed or exclusive. Holding that awareness could expand how we think and function.

In many respects modern feminism has resorted to putting women into slave labor that feeds a welfare system mostly dominated by men. Modern feminism, ironically, put women back into a kitchen that she sought to get out of. Corporate sponsored feminism has no intention of empowering women, but rather reducing them to slave labor.

Hmm... interesting. Not sure how that might play out. Women know how to play games too.

Agreed. Violence and war are weak, small-minded uses of energy, ravenously fed by and for ego, laying waste to broader thinking.

The problem is that they feed the vary industries we rely on to survive.

True.

What an amazing mangled mess we are.

[Eodnhoj7]

I would argue that to transcend "potential" would be a better goal as potentiality implies an "unactualized" degree of reality.

How can we ever transcend potential in an ever-expanding world? I'm not suggesting we be slaves to the IDEA of potential. I'm saying that we recognize that we're never at an ultimate truth/conclusion, and that nothing is ever closed or exclusive. Holding that awareness could expand how we think and function.

In one respect we cannot as we are physical in nature. In a seperate respect we can transcend this through the establishment of a new spiritual system or remember a forgotten one. The spiritual systems we have now are not working, and if any of them are "working" they are not making any strong appearance.

In many respects modern feminism has resorted to putting women into slave labor that feeds a welfare system mostly dominated by men. Modern feminism, ironically, put women back into a kitchen that she sought to get out of. Corporate sponsored feminism has no intention of empowering women, but rather reducing them to slave labor.

Hmm... interesting. Not sure how that might play out. Women know how to play games too.
I don't want to come off as a chauvinist... but so do men.

Agreed. Violence and war are weak, small-minded uses of energy, ravenously fed by and for ego, laying waste to broader thinking.

The problem is that they feed the vary industries we rely on to survive.

True.

What an amazing mangled mess we are.

It will self-implode by its very nature, the only real question one can ask (or maybe that one I ask myself) is: "What is to be done today?"

[Eodnhoj7]

A revolt against materialism would be a start.

[Lacewing]

I would argue that to transcend "potential" would be a better goal as potentiality implies an "unactualized" degree of reality.

How can we ever transcend potential in an ever-expanding world? I'm not suggesting we be slaves to the IDEA of potential. I'm saying that we recognize that we're never at an ultimate truth/conclusion, and that nothing is ever closed or exclusive. Holding that awareness could expand how we think and function.

In one respect we cannot as we are physical in nature. In a seperate respect we can transcend this through the establishment of a new spiritual system or remember a forgotten one. The spiritual systems we have now are not working, and if any of them are "working" they are not making any strong appearance.

I still don't see how things ever stop expanding... whether we approach it spiritually or physically. Are we not part of an ever-evolving, ever-expanding, dynamically-creative universe/world/experience on all levels? To NOT be so would seem to indicate a linear, finite, structure of some sort -- which beings can then claim to know and control.

Hmm... interesting. Not sure how that might play out. Women know how to play games too.

I don't want to come off as a chauvinist... but so do men.

That's why I said "too".

It will self-implode by its very nature, the only real question one can ask (or maybe that one I ask myself) is: "What is to be done today?"

My approach: Have FUN and treasure this experience while striving for clarity and balance as more steps become clear. And they do... every day/moment... in small ways... which could be big ways... because maybe everything is being learned and communicated faster and faster across humankind and the universe... and maybe we are part of a quantum leap.

[Viveka]

I think that Light as Goodness and Darkness as Evil has its limits, for what is good for one might be evil for another, and thus both Light and Darkness would manifest themselves at the same time on the same moral plane. Only as humans can we appreciate our own Light and Darkness for humans only, but I am thinking that this is quite selfish and not in the nature of what is fully Good. To see everything as Good without Darkness would be great, but then we would be faced with the problem of illusory evil or privational evil. Illusory Evil would be something like 'evil only exists as illusion, therefore, we can simply believe or wish or contemplate or realize or comprehend it away.' I think if we can attain enlightenment then, for me, evil would be gone, but not for others. If evil is a privation, then why is it that we commit evil deeds unless it is out of ignorance (a privation in itself), and wouldn't light overlap darkness if goodness was being, unless there is an absolute standard such as in deontological ethics? Deontological Ethics prevents this very overlapping of Light and Darkness on the same moral plane. However, what is best for all sentient beings all the time, everywhere? And if we can figure that out, then we would certainly have a great deontological system with a great non-overlapping of light and darkness.

[Eodnhoj7]

How can we ever transcend potential in an ever-expanding world? I'm not suggesting we be slaves to the IDEA of potential. I'm saying that we recognize that we're never at an ultimate truth/conclusion, and that nothing is ever closed or exclusive. Holding that awareness could expand how we think and function.

In one respect we cannot as we are physical in nature. In a seperate respect we can transcend this through the establishment of a new spiritual system or remember a forgotten one. The spiritual systems we have now are not working, and if any of them are "working" they are not making any strong appearance.

I still don't see how things ever stop expanding... whether we approach it spiritually or physically. Are we not part of an ever-evolving, ever-expanding, dynamically-creative universe/world/experience on all levels? To NOT be so would seem to indicate a linear, finite, structure of some sort -- which beings can then claim to know and control.

You are correct in many respects as to the physical nature of the universe, at least the structure I argue "exists". In respect, from a spiritual dimension all being is unified under one eternal infinite pointwhose boundaries never need expanding as it reflects itself through itself.

Hmm... interesting. Not sure how that might play out. Women know how to play games too.

I don't want to come off as a chauvinist... but so do men.

That's why I said "too".
Fair enough.

It will self-implode by its very nature, the only real question one can ask (or maybe that one I ask myself) is: "What is to be done today?"

My approach: Have FUN and treasure this experience while striving for clarity and balance as more steps become clear. And they do... every day/moment... in small ways... which could be big ways... because maybe everything is being learned and communicated faster and faster across humankind and the universe... and maybe we are part of a quantum leap.
These are historic times. Much like the two most important moments of a person's life, birth and death, they are the most critical aspects which define us yet we forget them as "life" is the center of it all.

[Eodnhoj7]

I think that Light as Goodness and Darkness as Evil has its limits, for what is good for one might be evil for another, and thus both Light and Darkness would manifest themselves at the same time on the same moral plane.
Are you arguing for a strict moral relativist approach?

Only as humans can we appreciate our own Light and Darkness for humans only, but I am thinking that this is quite selfish and not in the nature of what is fully Good. To see everything as Good without Darkness would be great, but then we would be faced with the problem of illusory evil or privational evil. Illusory Evil would be something like 'evil only exists as illusion, therefore, we can simply believe or wish or contemplate or realize or comprehend it away.' I think if we can attain enlightenment then, for me, evil would be gone, but not for others.


If evil is a privation, then why is it that we commit evil deeds unless it is out of ignorance (a privation in itself),
Yes, but ignorance is not always accident. In many respects people choose ignorance. This "choice" is fundamentally an absence of rational reflection.

and wouldn't light overlap darkness if goodness was being, unless there is an absolute standard such as in deontological ethics?

Same argument you heard from me before in regards to "goodness as being" applies here. In observing these times are dark, what one is doing is observing that they are deficient or "imbalanced" in structure.


Deontological Ethics prevents this very overlapping of Light and Darkness on the same moral plane. However, what is best for all sentient beings all the time, everywhere?
The golden mean is a universal moral standard which reflects back to the nature of the Logos and the 24 definitions.
And if we can figure that out, then we would certainly have a great deontological system with a great non-overlapping of light and darkness.

[OuterLimits]

The simple truth is that we live in dark times.

Ignorance has become understanding...understanding has become ignorance.

What philosophy has once deemed and valued as "truth" has been corrupted by the perpetual chaos of relativism. It is the darkness that not only soils the intellect but is the soil which buries the true light of "reason".

What is one to do in these times? How is one to establish order in chaos? But most importantly what is "truth"?

These three questions must be the seeds planted within the ignorance of these times. They must be watered and taken care of in order so that they may grow. And once they grow, and they will grow, they will produce a tree from which we will gather further fruits. These fruits will nourish us and provide the seeds of "further questions" which must be planted. From one tree comes and orchard, from one orchard a forest, from one forest the ability to start a new civilization...a new way of life.

For we all know what "has been done before" does not work now.

No one starts a riot over a discovery in chemistry. No one storms the streets for justice upon the discover of new "mathematical" equation. But change does come through questioning. Socrates over threw the gods through a simple "?"...why can't we?

In primitive monolithic societies, the most important thing held to as if for dear life is a single agreed myth or truth.

In the modern world, chaotic and relativist, and yet objectively with much less violence and much better outcomes, holding too fast to the old myths and truths is the vice and indeed gets people in the most trouble.

[Nick_A]

Genesis 1New International Version (NIV)

The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

It seems to me that before appreciating what it means to live in darkness a person first must have an understanding what light is. And God said, “Let there be light,” But what is light and how is it provided when there are no no sun? If we don't understand what is meant by this biblical passage it is either because it is just meaningless myth or we are psychologically closed to the depth of the idea. Perhaps living in darkness is proven by our inability to understand what light actually is.

[lesley_vos]

But most importantly what is "truth"?

To me, "truth" is a word that can't be defined as an absolute value. Our understanding and perception of this value forms in childhood and depends on family, neighborhood, and cultural background. Sure thing, it would be great to define it once and for all: people would behave and act alike then, but would it be okay? Where's the guarantee they wouldn't define that truth as "chaos" or wouldn't get rid of that stagnation when "everything is defined" and "we all are the same"? Isn't stagnation the worst thing that could happen to mankind?

Yes, chaos is the problem, but individuals who encourage it have their own truth. When taking both sides of the coin into consideration, we will be able to find the most appropriate definition. After all, that's the reason we still consider "the truth is somewhere in between" a bright catchphrase, isn't it?

[Eodnhoj7]

But most importantly what is "truth"?

To me, "truth" is a word that can't be defined as an absolute value. Our understanding and perception of this value forms in childhood and depends on family, neighborhood, and cultural background. Sure thing, it would be great to define it once and for all: people would behave and act alike then, but would it be okay? Where's the guarantee they wouldn't define that truth as "chaos" or wouldn't get rid of that stagnation when "everything is defined" and "we all are the same"? Isn't stagnation the worst thing that could happen to mankind?

Stagnation yes, it is the greatest evil of our time whether intellectual, spiritual, or physical. The millenial generation is saturated under it in the form of "luxury" and technological convenience...as if any such a thing exists as they squabble and fight to obtain it.

Definition? No. Take for example the flower. It is defined through its relation of time, under the seed, and upon reaching its potential it blooms. The flower opens itself up in both an act of vulnerability and beauty and from this opening it is defined fully. The flower in its full definition produces further flowers and life.

The act of definition is the opening of the truth and in many respects gives birth to further truths as extensions of itself.

Yes, chaos is the problem, but individuals who encourage it have their own truth. When taking both sides of the coin into consideration, we will be able to find the most appropriate definition. After all, that's the reason we still consider "the truth is somewhere in between" a bright catchphrase, isn't it?

The truth is somewhere in between is the act of synthesis which takes the evil, the nothingness, and from it brings forth something.

"In the beginning was darkness..." that should be the motto for the millenials.

[OuterLimits]

"Darkness", lack of truth, can be emphasized over outcomes in the fevered right wing (and other) imaginations.

Kids these days will have better outcomes than before, are healthier, etc.

What are worst *measurable* attributes of millennials ?