Certainly we can all agree that philosophy is the foundation stone of academia.
So shall we examine the events that have unfolded at this little college of Lafayette (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF-XbJS0kvQ)?
Perhaps we should further inquire (as philosophers) if there has been a serious detraction from philosophical thought and if this case is prominent throughout all of academia?
Is philosophy the last bulwark of academia?
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EchoesOfTheHorizon
- Posts: 356
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:08 am
Re: Is philosophy the last bulwark of academia?
That wasn't academia. That was students (only watched five minutes). First group clearly planned to all get up at the same time ahead of the speech, but did so somewhat orderly. In anything "controversial", and by controversial I mean whatever causes anyone to get butthurt enough to hear a opposing viewpoint, people walk out. I know this from experience running philosophy groups, never had it happen to me directly, but I've seen it happen to people taking the lead in debates, or hosting the group on a special topic they wanted. A lot of people can't tolerate dissenting viewpoints. They came into philosophy reading one kind of thinking, and are convinced the larger world of thought should fit into that way of thinking. It of course never does.
The second point, when I saw the silly people snapping fingers in unison, I turned out of the video. I didn't even know how to interprete that silliness. Was that for or against? I note everyone in the room looked too young to deserve to even hold political opinions, as I wouldn't take seriously anyone's position prior to the late 20s, the extent of life experiences they have is a college hazing, going to class, and getting drunk in a party. I'm not much impressed with that age group to know anything. I've spent years studying old military texts, works on statecraft, sociology, classic works on history from around the world, not to mention philosophy to get to a point that I can discern political movements with any degree of consistent accuracy. I have my doubts you can toss Clausewitz and Machiavelli in front of a kid who is 19 and expect much. Too many kids are rushed into school with dreams of being s diplomat, and get absolutely nowhere, they have useless theories, and no place to take them in to get experience. Military doesn't even trust officers just out of college with full fledge degrees to do anything without having a enlisted platoon Sargent eyeing everything they do, and it is extremely rare a young man is allowed to do anything consequential..... takes years and years, and study well beyond what colleges usually can provide to get you to a point of competently having a valid opinion on anything.
Two, three hundred years ago, these people never would of been allowed in college. It was meant for people who actually needed the degrees, to train a new class of political thinkers who would practice law, go into politics and administration on a grand scale..... actually keepmsociety running. I can't figure what 3/4ths of people are doing in college at this point, it doesn't seem to do anything good for them, still dumb as ever.
So I don't think philosophy is a bastion of academia. It died off a very, very long time ago. Like.... it was useful in the Middle Ages, it did a lot in London and Paris to push the debates philosophy had at that time, but I can't think of a single influential academic today who said anything I found worthwhile. Can't point to too many in the 20th century.... I of course know many professors will insist fit that bill, but I can't take existentialists and communist thinkers as something positively essential to philosophy. Nobody positively benefited from Foucault coming to the US for example. Nothing from Marcuse.... he had a absolute right to be here, due to his WW2 service, but he didn't do anything positive once here. I can make a long list, but it will mostly patterned after those two. We did take in a few scientists who taught philosophy as well, like Polyani, his concept of the Republic of Science and study of our society was good, a second Tocquerville, but needless to say, most foreign philosophers didn't do anything positive, and our native philosophers in university are none existent. We only have people with degrees in our colleges, but lacking the philosophical spark.... that deep motivation to get and and go, investigate society in new ways. Discover challenging new concepts. They mostly regurgitated the European left, and now now our own native left. I avoid universities like the plague for that reason, as I can't respect them, or trust them. Think they are more infatuated with being a professor than a philosopher. It is hard for someone like me with respect for the cynic branch of philosophy to stand in solidarity with such pretension.
So philosophy failed miserably at some point. I can't nail it down, tempted to say Hegel, but I occasionally see interesting sparks after him. I get disgusted by indoctrination, isn't good for a philosopher. We mostly indoctrinate now.
Now in fairness, these open forums are classical displays, rooted in the debates that would occur in the three gymnasiums outside of Athens. A lot of Socratic dialogues involve the character of Socrates on a stroll to one of these places, finding some time to talk along the way. A philosopher should emulate this, going to different schools of thought and opinion, hearing people out, and doing so respectfully. I've done it a lot, heck, at times dedicated my life to do it. I even moved to San Francisco and went to book discussions, political debates, anything and everything to challenge my views and get a better understanding of my own. You really should be doing this as a philosopher, and am glad universities remember at some level the necessity of exposing the students to a diversity of opinions. The question arising from this video is however.... are they worthy of philosophy?
I wouldn't view the people walking around and away as worthy. I take only one student at a time (tried two once, and refused for a long time after that to take any) and make certain they constantly push to expand out of safe zones. I insist on learning from primary sources, and paying attention to the use of rhetoric and personality, but that is as generic as a I get. It is uniquely customized from that point on to them, largely guided by their needs.... but I absolutely do not compromise on my standards. Think this aspect of pedagogy has always existed alongside of academic philosophy, as well as the monastic masters of knowledge that the modern catholic university system was born out of. Madrasas in Islam likewise aren't the sole source of philosophical knowedge, they preserve classical cynic thought better than any modern religion in terms of systematic rule based lifestyle of impoverished philosophers taking students. India has produced a few different systems of education, not all based at all on what we would call a academic structure. Taoists in china certainly don't. I don't think most modern philosophy takes place in universities, that universities are fully aware of what is floating around outside of the walls, and are a little too puffed up on how essential the influence of their teachings actually are. A lot might influence screen writers who took philosophy as a minor, but it isn't always easy putting it into a script.
There wasn't really much of anything we could call a conservative philosophy movement in America, what we would call conservative today. Polyani influenced Drucker, who influenced Fox News, but his ideas are not that well advertised on that platform, or Breitbart. These are ideas that came from outside of philosophy departments, such as from history departments, or economics. Both are indeed branches of philosophy, but most philosophy professors aren't well read in it. We know this by the students they pump out, know nothing and ignorant.
Academic Philosophy died off a long, long time ago here. Maybe it was never strong to begin with, hence why we imported so many bad theorists from Europe. We had a Machiavellian root early on, one that insisted on the classics. One that put the idea of the republic and a sound democracy ahead of party politics. One that balanced religion and secularism, civil and military, federal and state and grass root change. Now, it is mostly a ignorant mockery of flash mobs spouting pure ignorance. Not just the left, mostly the left admittedly, but the right does it too. I'm not interested in fixing the university system. I want good medical colleges, good ethics courses for business colleges, good ethics and history courses for military colleges, but I increasingly see less and less validity for colleges here on out, as far as philosophy is concerned. We can get ignorant students like that learning from Reddit feeds, memes, and Facebook likes equally well taught, as they showed themselves in the video. A lot of people not remotely affiliated with universities go to these events just to broaden their horizons, challenge their ideas. I'd prefer them to vote, and these people to shut up, not vote,and stare at the wall and leave everyone alone. If you really want to learn, crack open a book, or explore. Don't go to university for a philosophy degree if you intend to be a philosopher. Useless waste of time.
The second point, when I saw the silly people snapping fingers in unison, I turned out of the video. I didn't even know how to interprete that silliness. Was that for or against? I note everyone in the room looked too young to deserve to even hold political opinions, as I wouldn't take seriously anyone's position prior to the late 20s, the extent of life experiences they have is a college hazing, going to class, and getting drunk in a party. I'm not much impressed with that age group to know anything. I've spent years studying old military texts, works on statecraft, sociology, classic works on history from around the world, not to mention philosophy to get to a point that I can discern political movements with any degree of consistent accuracy. I have my doubts you can toss Clausewitz and Machiavelli in front of a kid who is 19 and expect much. Too many kids are rushed into school with dreams of being s diplomat, and get absolutely nowhere, they have useless theories, and no place to take them in to get experience. Military doesn't even trust officers just out of college with full fledge degrees to do anything without having a enlisted platoon Sargent eyeing everything they do, and it is extremely rare a young man is allowed to do anything consequential..... takes years and years, and study well beyond what colleges usually can provide to get you to a point of competently having a valid opinion on anything.
Two, three hundred years ago, these people never would of been allowed in college. It was meant for people who actually needed the degrees, to train a new class of political thinkers who would practice law, go into politics and administration on a grand scale..... actually keepmsociety running. I can't figure what 3/4ths of people are doing in college at this point, it doesn't seem to do anything good for them, still dumb as ever.
So I don't think philosophy is a bastion of academia. It died off a very, very long time ago. Like.... it was useful in the Middle Ages, it did a lot in London and Paris to push the debates philosophy had at that time, but I can't think of a single influential academic today who said anything I found worthwhile. Can't point to too many in the 20th century.... I of course know many professors will insist fit that bill, but I can't take existentialists and communist thinkers as something positively essential to philosophy. Nobody positively benefited from Foucault coming to the US for example. Nothing from Marcuse.... he had a absolute right to be here, due to his WW2 service, but he didn't do anything positive once here. I can make a long list, but it will mostly patterned after those two. We did take in a few scientists who taught philosophy as well, like Polyani, his concept of the Republic of Science and study of our society was good, a second Tocquerville, but needless to say, most foreign philosophers didn't do anything positive, and our native philosophers in university are none existent. We only have people with degrees in our colleges, but lacking the philosophical spark.... that deep motivation to get and and go, investigate society in new ways. Discover challenging new concepts. They mostly regurgitated the European left, and now now our own native left. I avoid universities like the plague for that reason, as I can't respect them, or trust them. Think they are more infatuated with being a professor than a philosopher. It is hard for someone like me with respect for the cynic branch of philosophy to stand in solidarity with such pretension.
So philosophy failed miserably at some point. I can't nail it down, tempted to say Hegel, but I occasionally see interesting sparks after him. I get disgusted by indoctrination, isn't good for a philosopher. We mostly indoctrinate now.
Now in fairness, these open forums are classical displays, rooted in the debates that would occur in the three gymnasiums outside of Athens. A lot of Socratic dialogues involve the character of Socrates on a stroll to one of these places, finding some time to talk along the way. A philosopher should emulate this, going to different schools of thought and opinion, hearing people out, and doing so respectfully. I've done it a lot, heck, at times dedicated my life to do it. I even moved to San Francisco and went to book discussions, political debates, anything and everything to challenge my views and get a better understanding of my own. You really should be doing this as a philosopher, and am glad universities remember at some level the necessity of exposing the students to a diversity of opinions. The question arising from this video is however.... are they worthy of philosophy?
I wouldn't view the people walking around and away as worthy. I take only one student at a time (tried two once, and refused for a long time after that to take any) and make certain they constantly push to expand out of safe zones. I insist on learning from primary sources, and paying attention to the use of rhetoric and personality, but that is as generic as a I get. It is uniquely customized from that point on to them, largely guided by their needs.... but I absolutely do not compromise on my standards. Think this aspect of pedagogy has always existed alongside of academic philosophy, as well as the monastic masters of knowledge that the modern catholic university system was born out of. Madrasas in Islam likewise aren't the sole source of philosophical knowedge, they preserve classical cynic thought better than any modern religion in terms of systematic rule based lifestyle of impoverished philosophers taking students. India has produced a few different systems of education, not all based at all on what we would call a academic structure. Taoists in china certainly don't. I don't think most modern philosophy takes place in universities, that universities are fully aware of what is floating around outside of the walls, and are a little too puffed up on how essential the influence of their teachings actually are. A lot might influence screen writers who took philosophy as a minor, but it isn't always easy putting it into a script.
There wasn't really much of anything we could call a conservative philosophy movement in America, what we would call conservative today. Polyani influenced Drucker, who influenced Fox News, but his ideas are not that well advertised on that platform, or Breitbart. These are ideas that came from outside of philosophy departments, such as from history departments, or economics. Both are indeed branches of philosophy, but most philosophy professors aren't well read in it. We know this by the students they pump out, know nothing and ignorant.
Academic Philosophy died off a long, long time ago here. Maybe it was never strong to begin with, hence why we imported so many bad theorists from Europe. We had a Machiavellian root early on, one that insisted on the classics. One that put the idea of the republic and a sound democracy ahead of party politics. One that balanced religion and secularism, civil and military, federal and state and grass root change. Now, it is mostly a ignorant mockery of flash mobs spouting pure ignorance. Not just the left, mostly the left admittedly, but the right does it too. I'm not interested in fixing the university system. I want good medical colleges, good ethics courses for business colleges, good ethics and history courses for military colleges, but I increasingly see less and less validity for colleges here on out, as far as philosophy is concerned. We can get ignorant students like that learning from Reddit feeds, memes, and Facebook likes equally well taught, as they showed themselves in the video. A lot of people not remotely affiliated with universities go to these events just to broaden their horizons, challenge their ideas. I'd prefer them to vote, and these people to shut up, not vote,and stare at the wall and leave everyone alone. If you really want to learn, crack open a book, or explore. Don't go to university for a philosophy degree if you intend to be a philosopher. Useless waste of time.
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FlashDangerpants
- Posts: 6320
- Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm
Re: Is philosophy the last bulwark of academia?
I don't agree with that claim at all. It doesn't really mean anything, you are just pandering to your audience.
I also cannot possibly be bothered to watch over an hour of student wankers debating stupid shit with some arsehole who calls themselves themselves "roaming millenial". Triggering "SJW college snowflakes" isn't a challenging sport, boasting about it on Youtube is much like hanging the severed heads of your neighbour's puppies over the fireplace and expecting props for being a brilliant fucking hunter.
Re: Is philosophy the last bulwark of academia?
What academia?Chris.s wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:25 pm Certainly we can all agree that philosophy is the foundation stone of academia.
So shall we examine the events that have unfolded at this little college of Lafayette (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF-XbJS0kvQ)?
Perhaps we should further inquire (as philosophers) if there has been a serious detraction from philosophical thought and if this case is prominent throughout all of academia?