Our problem is we think we're human beings

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Philosophy Explorer
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Our problem is we think we're human beings

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

We're actually human animals. All the evidence suggests that. Thinking we're human beings is wishful thinking.

PhilX 🇺🇸
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A_Seagull
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Re: Our problem is we think we're human beings

Post by A_Seagull »

Philosophy Explorer wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:44 pm We're actually human animals. All the evidence suggests that. Thinking we're human beings is wishful thinking.

PhilX 🇺🇸
What do you see as being the difference, Phil?

For me it is different names, same animal.
Philosophy Explorer
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Re: Our problem is we think we're human beings

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

A_Seagull wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:42 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:44 pm We're actually human animals. All the evidence suggests that. Thinking we're human beings is wishful thinking.

PhilX 🇺🇸
What do you see as being the difference, Phil?

For me it is different names, same animal.
With the human beings version, it's normally tied to intelligence. Open to discussion.

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A_Seagull
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Re: Our problem is we think we're human beings

Post by A_Seagull »

Philosophy Explorer wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:48 pm
A_Seagull wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:42 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:44 pm We're actually human animals. All the evidence suggests that. Thinking we're human beings is wishful thinking.

PhilX 🇺🇸
What do you see as being the difference, Phil?

For me it is different names, same animal.
With the human beings version, it's normally tied to intelligence. Open to discussion.

PhilX 🇺🇸
All animals have intelligence, Phil.
Philosophy Explorer
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Re: Our problem is we think we're human beings

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

A_Seagull wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:36 am
Philosophy Explorer wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:48 pm
A_Seagull wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:42 pm

What do you see as being the difference, Phil?

For me it is different names, same animal.
With the human beings version, it's normally tied to intelligence. Open to discussion.

PhilX 🇺🇸
All animals have intelligence, Phil.
That's a very liberal definition of intelligence you're using for all animals. What leads you to say that? Any studies in particular? Certainly you haven't evidence for all animals. Would you say that bacteria have intelligence as they don't have brains?

For human beings, not all are intelligent as many are impulsive and don't apply much thought.

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Dalek Prime
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Re: Our problem is we think we're human beings

Post by Dalek Prime »

The problem lies in thinking that, because we evolved 'naturally', we think anything we do is natural by extension. In actuality, we have long stopped seeing ourselves within the natural order, the minute the first home sapiens were able to mentally recognize themselves and nature as distinct, and ponder where they belong in the system.

(Oh, hi Greta lol ;))
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Greta
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Re: Our problem is we think we're human beings

Post by Greta »

Dalek Prime wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:49 pm The problem lies in thinking that, because we evolved 'naturally', we think anything we do is natural by extension. In actuality, we have long stopped seeing ourselves within the natural order, the minute the first home sapiens were able to mentally recognize themselves and nature as distinct, and ponder where they belong in the system.

(Oh, hi Greta lol ;))
Who? Me? :)

There was a time when hominids and other species were peers, predators and prey of each other. All animals have their special abilities - many have physical abilities like size, strength, speed, fangs, claws, a thick hide, fur, scales and so on. Like all primates, the main weapon of hominids was intelligence - the ability to work out what the heck is going on (a pastime we all know and love), which helps when competing with other species. A crocodile's jaws and armour won't help if a group of humans ambush it, constrain it with a net and bash its head in with a rock.

There have been some key events leading up to human dominance (noting that algae, tardigrades and ants are masters of their own domains). About 70,000 years ago an ice age caused an extinction event that claimed Homo erectus and other hominids, with only around 10,000 H. sapiens surviving. Until then, there were different human species competing, and thus there was a clear link between Homo smartypants and the rest of nature.

That changed after the ice age, and that's when humans started taking control. The greater our control, the less competition, thus more time to improve themselves and create better tools for more effective hunting and gathering, as opposed wasting time fleeing and hiding from predators and competitors. The gap obviously continues to widen, although it seems to me that humanity is now something very different to humans.

Individuals today are different, but not wildly so, from their ancestors. By contrast, the capabilities of humanity today are mind boggling. Landing a craft on a comet half a billion kms away, skyscrapers, bridges and other humongous engineering feats, nanotechnology, AI - what have these to do with the lives of little people, other than observe with awe (or resentment, if one is that way inclined) and remember that we are each a tiny link in the chain that creates these wonders of the modern age? Whether we like it or not :)
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Re: Our problem is we think we're human beings

Post by Celebritydiscodave2 »

There is no suggestion made, nor can there be, merely on account of the existence of this term, neither directly nor indirectly, "human being" that popular prospective is other than in the realization that we are in fact animals. Neither has the term itself its own built in voice. Very few, in my opinion, would revoke this, that we are mammals/animals. On the next level however it begins to get more interesting. for this term "animal" can be used to denote that which tends to more aggression, perhaps less empathy and compassion, and "human" to an abundance of those virtues. Thus, one individual, come group of individuals, might perhaps reasonably be referred to as being human animals as distinct from the rest of us human beings. Such use of terms would prove very powerful in my view, and would likely be the cause of some considerable reflection upon both wrong thinking as well wrong doings.

All of the original human animal traits remain with us. For one thing, we still love our partners sexually. that`s as primitive as it gets. There is greater love to be discovered through abstinence in my view, and perhaps more especially when sexual desire is overwhelming. Very few of us venture there, and we are likely no closer to accepting that love is a highly selfish affair than we ever were. We have of course evolved a social institution which controls our actions far more, and it needs to. That is the key difference.

Creta, yes, but every life form has its history, and we are not the only ones to have evolved smarter. We put a lot by our intellect but dinosaurs were not unsuccessful either. To eradicate any prejudice on our part perhaps we should refer to them as dinosaur beings?
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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Our problem is we think we're human beings

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie »

I find primitivism to be the key to genius.

John Carmack makes violent and bloody fps games.
Bill Gates plots on global domination.
Nikola Tesla, although a virgin, deeply lusted after femininity and women.
Einstein married his own cousin, out of lust.

But you, you want to ruin the fun, and make everyone into a bunch of asexual nun types.

You can't, can't, can't ban fun and expect people to be genius. Fun is the motivation of genius. Its why Wilbur Wright made the airplane.
If you kill the fun, you kill the motivation to succeed.
Celebritydiscodave2
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Re: Our problem is we think we're human beings

Post by Celebritydiscodave2 »

The more which we do which is animal behavior the more animal we are, this was my point, at least in part, but sure, if animals are enjoying it why should n`t we.
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