WHAT MIND IS

For all things philosophical.

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Dontaskme
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by Dontaskme »

Walker wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:47 pm
surreptitious57 wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:23 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
questions always demand an answer .... but answers never need questions so the answer must always be contained in the question
The natural curiosity of the human mind has to be tempered with patience since answers are not always as easy to come by as the
questions that precede them. So sometimes not knowing is paradoxically all one can know. And there is nothing wrong with that. I
see it as a neutral position rather than a negative one. But while there will always be more questions than answers knowledge will
increase over time. But one should still be patient rather than expecting truth to come straight away. It will come when it is ready
So, truth isn't determined by choice.
Choice wasn't mentioned.

Truth is self-standing all alone, but when there is an apparent seeking for truth that seeking creates the illusion truth is something to reach for, something I haven't got...this seeking is all-inclusive within truth itself. The hide and seek effect.
surreptitious57
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by surreptitious57 »

Seeking truth is in and of itself not a problem but it can become a problem if human beings become frustrated and expect answers straight away
Or when the answers they get are not the ones they want. Human beings need two things when searching for truth. One is patience which I have
already said and the other one is an open mind. So then without both of these they can not be truly satisfied with any answers to their questions
Walker
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by Walker »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:01 pm Choice wasn't mentioned.

Truth is self-standing all alone, but when there is an apparent seeking for truth that seeking creates the illusion truth is something to reach for, something I haven't got...this seeking is all-inclusive within truth itself. The hide and seek effect.
Twas twice mentioned.
Once by me, and once by you in reference to the first once.

To be clear, it was stated as a rhetorical question, without the proper punctuation, to emphasize the affirmative.
ken
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by ken »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:38 pm
ken wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:48 pm
If that is what you believe, then so be it.
I don't believe it ..I know it...just like you keep banging on about what you know.

Now can you please stop with your psychopathic obsession with assuming what other people know and do not know you pompous arrogant twit.

.
No obsession nor assuming from Me. If, and when we look back at our posts, then we will be able to see if what dontaskme wrote here is more in line with what dontaskme does or what I do.

Also, was it dontaskme that wrote some thing like, "Do not attack the messenger"?
Dalek Prime
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by Dalek Prime »

surreptitious57 wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:33 pm I define Mind as Consciousness existing throughout the Universe namely something that has always existed and will always exist so is not only
limited to human beings. Consciousness here does not mean brain function but simply ALL THERE IS which is the definition of Universe too so
therefore Consciousness is another word for Universe. Now I did recently say that the Universe is within Existence but Existence is more than
the Universe though this is wrong because the Universe is ALL THERE IS. The reason that I said that is because I was ONLY thinking of the non
conscious physical Universe not the conscious physical Universe that includes human beings. So I think the words Mind and Consciousness and
Universe and Existence all mean EXACTLY the same thing. To avoid confusion I will just use one of those words from now on. And that is Mind
And I define mind as ice cream. And it's delicious. But no one has to agree with my definition. Though I will suggest, again, that it's delicious.
ken
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by ken »

Dontaskme wrote:
questions always demand an answer ....
How do questions alone always demand an answer? To Me, it is people who demand things. Questions can asked for no other reason than just clarification, for example, without any demand at all.
Dontaskme wrote:but answers never need questions so the answer must always be contained in the question
Answers may not never need questions, but how do you propose from this that what follows is the answer must always be contained in the question?

And, if the answer MUST ALWAYS be contained in the question, as you know it is, then whereabouts in the question Who am I? is the supposed contained answer, and what is that answer?
surreptitious57 wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:23 pmThe natural curiosity of the human mind has to be tempered with patience since answers are not always as easy to come by as the
questions that precede them.
This thread topic is WHAT MIND IS, and you defined MIND as Consciousness existing throughout the Universe namely something that has always existed and will always exist so is not only limited to human beings. Consciousness here does not mean brain function but simply ALL THERE IS which is the definition of Universe too ... But now you write, "human mind". Can you explain the contradiction or did you just write this out of habit?
surreptitious57 wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:23 pmSo sometimes not knowing is paradoxically all one can know.
Not knowing is not all one can know. But rather not knowing exists, at that moment, for as long as it does. No matter what one does not know, they can discover and/or learn and understand it, thus know it.
surreptitious57 wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:23 pmAnd there is nothing wrong with that. I see it as a neutral position rather than a negative one.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with not knowing any thing. In fact in can be seen in a positive position, as the more I do not know, then the more I can learn, and thus then the MORE I AM ABLE TO become wiser. The more OPEN I am, the more I able to learn, and so I am able to learn from any experience, no matter how seemingly negative it appears, In fact as long as I am open, then all experiences are positive as I am continually learning from them. No person is born knowing any thing, so until a person has that been exposed to some thing, then there is no way they could possibly have knowledge of it or know it. The only way to learn is through experiences, listening to words being told is experiencing or an experience of some thing.
surreptitious57 wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:23 pmBut while there will always be more questions than answers knowledge will
increase over time. But one should still be patient rather than expecting truth to come straight away. It will come when it is ready
But truth does come, just about almost, straight away. For example, for any question that the answer is unknown, then the truth, and thus the truthful answer is, I do not know.

The truth is always here. The open MIND sees and knows truth already. Unfortunately, though, the truth gets twisted, distorted, hidden, prevented, or blocked by people assuming, believing, and/or thinking they know the truth before they actually do. For example, assuming other people will judge me badly if I answer, I do not know, prevents the truth from coming to light. The truth might be some people will judge badly, but if people are judging for just not knowing some thing, then those people are truly distorted people. How do they expect another, even them self, to know some thing if they have never had any experience of it?

The reason people fear "not knowing" is the result of a very poor, so called "education system". 'Education', once meant to draw out, the potential within a person. But sadly education has been changed to, "We are going to teach you things and if you are not able to recall a certain amount of what we teach you, then you will fail, and thus you will be labelled as a "failure".
ken
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:31 pm Seeking truth is in and of itself not a problem but it can become a problem if human beings become frustrated and expect answers straight away
But the truthful answer is there straightaway. Excepting that answer is all it takes to not feel frustrated.
surreptitious57 wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:31 pmOr when the answers they get are not the ones they want.
A person can only get an unwanted answer if the truthful answer does not fit in with their preconceived ideas, views and perceptions. Only if people are looking for answers with any preconceptions, assumptions, views, or beliefs of what is expected, then obviously they will feel frustrated with unexpected answers, or just ignore them wholeheartedly. That is why it is necessary to always remain, so you can always be looking truly openly, (from the truly open Mind) and thus will NEVER feel frustrated, disappointed, et cetera.
surreptitious57 wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:31 pmHuman beings need two things when searching for truth. One is patience which I have
already said and the other one is an open mind.
But the Mind is always open. Human beings just need to learn how to look from the open Mind properly.
surreptitious57 wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:31 pm So then without both of these they can not be truly satisfied with any answers to their questions
This may be true in a sense, but an issue here arises when people who say/think they are searching for truth, find an "answer" that fits in with their already held perceptions of what is true. These people are then truly satisfied with "this answer", they have found, to their questions. They may even perceive that they have an "open mind" and so believe "this answer" is the truth and if others can not see that "this answer" is then truth then perceive those others as not being open, or that they are not "having an open mind".
surreptitious57
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by surreptitious57 »

Having an open mind allows one to be prepared for answers that may be unexpected and prevents one from assuming what an answer will be
One should avoid becoming complacent if answers always appear satisfactory for that cannot always be guaranteed. The function of an open
mind is to learn truth not decide which truthful answers are most pleasing to it. The mind must accommodate truth not the other way round
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HexHammer
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by HexHammer »

ken wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:45 am
HexHammer wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:24 am What a fucking bunch of pure nonsense and babble!
I am not sure how long it will take before I can get back to you, because it will take Me some time to fully digest and decipher this. There is just way to much proof, evidence, and logical reasoning here in your refutation to consider and take it all in at once.
Your so called "evidence" are grabbed out of thin air, skitzo logic isn't admissible, so nothing of what you say makes sense, sorry!
ken
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by ken »

HexHammer wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:22 am
ken wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:45 am
HexHammer wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:24 am What a fucking bunch of pure nonsense and babble!
I am not sure how long it will take before I can get back to you, because it will take Me some time to fully digest and decipher this. There is just way to much proof, evidence, and logical reasoning here in your refutation to consider and take it all in at once.
Your so called "evidence" are grabbed out of thin air, skitzo logic isn't admissible, so nothing of what you say makes sense, sorry!
But the ONLY evidence I have talked about is in what is written here, for all to see.
ken
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:29 am Having an open mind allows one to be prepared for answers that may be unexpected and prevents one from assuming what an answer will be
One should avoid becoming complacent if answers always appear satisfactory for that cannot always be guaranteed. The function of an open
mind is to learn truth not decide which truthful answers are most pleasing to it. The mind must accommodate truth not the other way round
It appears that you have changed your definition of MIND somewhat from the opening post.

What do you mean by having an open mind ...? If Mind means Consciousness, Universe, and ALL THERE IS, then how, who and what can have this?

What do you mean by the function of an open mind is to learn truth not decide which truthful answers are most pleasing to it? If Mind means Consciousness, Universe, and ALL THERE IS, then how could Mind learn? I would say if Mind is Consciousness, Universe, and ALL THERE IS, then it would already KNOW what the truth IS.

What do you mean by the mind must accommodate truth ...? If the Mind is ALL THERE IS, then surely it does not need to accommodate truth? If the Mind is ALL THERE IS, then the Mind would be and/or know truth already.
surreptitious57
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by surreptitious57 »

We have had this discussion before. Mind and mind are not the same. Mind is Existence or Consciousness or Universe which is ALL THERE IS. While
mind is merely thoughts produced by the human brain. So when I say my mind I mean the thoughts produced by my brain NOT the Universe which
is ALL THERE IS. I know you find this confusing but I do not and in fact the distinction between Mind and mind is crystal clear to me. That is why I
will carry on using the two terms. If you want to use thoughts produced by the human brain instead of mind you can but I will not since I have no
need to. And as this is now at least the second time I have had to explain this to you maybe you should try to remember it from now on if you can
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HexHammer
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by HexHammer »

ken wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:31 am
HexHammer wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:22 am
ken wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:45 am

I am not sure how long it will take before I can get back to you, because it will take Me some time to fully digest and decipher this. There is just way to much proof, evidence, and logical reasoning here in your refutation to consider and take it all in at once.
Your so called "evidence" are grabbed out of thin air, skitzo logic isn't admissible, so nothing of what you say makes sense, sorry!
But the ONLY evidence I have talked about is in what is written here, for all to see.
That's no evidence,it's twisted nonsensical circular logic.
ken
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:19 pm We have had this discussion before. Mind and mind are not the same. Mind is Existence or Consciousness or Universe which is ALL THERE IS. While
mind is merely thoughts produced by the human brain. So when I say my mind I mean the thoughts produced by my brain NOT the Universe which
is ALL THERE IS. I know you find this confusing but I do not and in fact the distinction between Mind and mind is crystal clear to me. That is why I
will carry on using the two terms. If you want to use thoughts produced by the human brain instead of mind you can but I will not since I have no
need to. And as this is now at least the second time I have had to explain this to you maybe you should try to remember it from now on if you can

Considering this is thread is, literally, about WHAT MIND IS, considering it was YOU who started this thread and topic, AND considering it was YOU who first defined what MIND is here, then do you think that it would have been a good idea to clear up that you define MIND in two completely different AND also opposing ways, so that there would be NO confusion at all?

Also, if there is a totally acceptable word to replace an other word, which the other word has a totally different and opposite thus confusing meaning anyway, then do you think it would be better and would be more sensible to use the acceptable word instead? If 'mind' is merely thoughts anyway, then would it not make more sense to just use the word thoughts instead?

I already knew your distinction between Mind and mind. I was just wondering WHY you continue to use the two confusing terminologies? I even asked you a very simple question for clarification, which was, Can you explain the contradiction or did you just write this out of habit? So, it could have been obvious that I was already aware of your distinctly different usage.

However, you again seem to ignore the actual other
questions I was asking you in relation to this, some of which are, What do you mean by having an open mind ...?. If 'mind' is merely thoughts produced by the human brain as you are suggesting it is, then what do you mean by having open thoughts produced by the human brain when you say, "having an open mind"?

What are 'open thoughts', and how can I have them?

By the way there is no use always adding 'produced by the human brain' after the word 'thought' because I already take 'thought' to come only from within human beings especially when no other animal has been specifically mentioned in the discussion.

Also, what do you mean when you say "mind (thought) must accommodate truth"? I have heard and seen a tremoundous amount of thought that has absolutely NO truth it at all.

And, again, What do you mean when you say "the function of an open mind (thought) is to learn truth not decide which truthful answers are most pleasing to it"?

And, do you have any examples of an open thought?
ken
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Re: WHAT MIND IS

Post by ken »

HexHammer wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:01 pm
ken wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:31 am
HexHammer wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:22 am Your so called "evidence" are grabbed out of thin air, skitzo logic isn't admissible, so nothing of what you say makes sense, sorry!
But the ONLY evidence I have talked about is in what is written here, for all to see.
That's no evidence,it's twisted nonsensical circular logic.
The ONLY evidence I have talked about is the NO evidence that you have provided, which actually supports your belief, that this is nonsense and babble.

You said that My so called "evidence" are grabbed out of thin air. But the actual truth is I NEVER used any evidence at all. I just gave a view of what I observe.

If you have some actual evidence of what MIND actually is, then it would be interesting to see that. Until then all that you said here is that what I say, thus observe, is nonsense and babble. You say this but provide absolutely NO evidence for it, other than only that is what you observe and have said, which by the way is what you observe and say a lot and quite often. In fact I do not immediately recall what other views and opinions you actually have. Also, I already noticed that some one already noted that by luck or chance that you would have to get it right one time, and that has already happened.
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