Sorry for the long delay but events intervened!
”seeds” wrote:As just one simple example of what I am getting at, “visible light” (i.e., that which illuminates the three-dimensional structures of the universe) would have absolutely no reason or purpose for existing in a context where there is nothing conscious (alive) to see anything.
This is the core area where we vehemently disagree. You project purpose as humanly denoted where I think of the Universe simply as being...no extra "humanisms" imposed.
What is the purpose of billions of planets existing just in our galaxy which are totally devoid of life, literally dead planets...a number that can be further multiplied by billions of galaxies! It’s beyond paradox to derive purpose here even if some planets host a consciousness no greater than that of a sardine. Must the Universe really be so huge and full of nothing to know itself!
”seeds” wrote:In fact, according to certain interpretations of quantum theory, without the existence of consciousness to transform the waving, informationally-based (noumenal) underpinning of the universe into the phenomenal features that consciousness itself calls “reality”...
...then the entire universe would exist as a superpositionally entangled amalgam of potentialities (the “universal wavefunction”) that has no reality as we understand reality to be.
In other words, minus the existence of life and consciousness, the universe would be a sightless, textureless, soundless, tasteless, odorless “field of information”….
If it is even remotely possible that such is the case, then don't you think that your insistence that the value of consciousness is “inflated” and “exceeding its mandate,” could be a bit off the mark?
Consciousness is inflated by its own desperate efforts to give itself meaning and using every available method for doing so.
The “value of consciousness” is truly beyond estimate while remaining limited nonetheless. Superimposing any interpretation of Quantum Theory does not negate this fact.
”seeds” wrote:Also, what I infer from your response is that you don’t seem to have given much thought to what quantum theory is implying (at least to the astute metaphysician) in how reality seems to be composed of a “mind-like” substance.
And I suggest that it is “mind-like” because the informationally-based essence from which the fabric of reality is woven (again, the noumenal underpinning of the universe) is apparently capable of being arranged in such a way that practically any (objective) phenomenal structure “imaginable” can be created from it...
...beyond its current definition? Beyond what’s already been created, what already exists? Beyond the science which attempts to explain it?
Logically, it would seem to me, the “noumenal underpinning of the universe” had to
preexist its creation. What you
seem to be saying is that the universe (or its apparent reality) can be re-morphed as informationally-based variables whose conditions are amenable to consciousness.
”seeds” wrote:In which case, if it is indeed a possibility that all of reality is “mind-like” in nature (think Berkeley), then it would seem that consciousness (the overlord and manipulator of mind-stuff) would be critical to the system.
I’m not negating that Reality can be qualified by certain interpretations as “mind-like” because in some ways consciousness has already proven itself capable of doing exactly that. As such, it still remains qualified by limits imposed by the system however extensive that may be. Only figuratively can it be said that the universe caused the creation of consciousness to reflect upon itself but even then it can only be to whatever limit consciousness itself is limited to.
”seeds” wrote:The point is that there are a lot of different pieces of the puzzle to consider before you dismiss certain concepts that seem ludicrous to you.
Whereas I agree with the intent of your statement, some concepts really are ludicrous! Many of these constellate around the subject of consciousness, its degree and ability to spread itself across the universe.
Bereft of any overt reason for existing the mind hallucinates one for itself in a universe which offers none. Or put another way if the universe, prima facie, has no purpose consciousness must crown itself To Be its purpose. We used to have gods to approve that conviction. Now we have Quantum Theory instead!