Einstein and the Cosmic Man

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Nick_A
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

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“It is not so very important for a person to learn facts. For that he does not really need a college. He can learn them from books. The value of an education in a liberal arts college is not the learning of many facts, but the training of the mind to think something that cannot be learned from textbooks.”
That quote comes from Einstein's 1921 response to Thomas Edison's statement that a college education is useless.

The quote is included in Philipp Frank's book "Einstein: His Life and Times"
In "Sketch of Contemporary Social Life" (1934), Simone Weil develops the theme of collectivism as the trajectory of modern culture.

"Never has the individual been so completely delivered up to a blind collectivity, and never have men been so less capable, not only of subordinating their actions to their thoughts, but even of thinking."
People here value education so want to know what to teach. Yet it is meaningless without knowing how to think. Has it ever occurred to you that all these educated intellectuals praising reason do not know how to think? If they did, do you really believe the world would be as chaotic as it is? What will it take for a person to become able to think as opposed to being limited by reason and attempts at indoctrination? Cave man reasons while Cosmic man thinks. How to make the transition? What is the required emotional attitude that supports the transition from reason into thinking?
Nick_A
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Nick_A »

Greta
So the problem with education is not "secularisation", it's rationalisation. Too many people consuming too much from an ever-shrinking resource base. So resources are rationed/rationalised - music and art are the first to go, plus all the interesting and inspiring side stories that bring a syllabus to life. Learn the stuff, pass your grades, welcome to the machine.
The Great Beast is a living machine and like other beasts it is a creature that arose from the earth, is psychologically attached to the earth, and reacts in accordance with earthly influences. You are an atom of the Beast. What would it take for you to transcend your defense of secularization and rationalization so as to become the cosmic woman?
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Arising_uk
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

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Nick_A wrote:Einstein wrote: “The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education”.

If you can understand this, it will be clear why the condition for learning is of primary importance. How does education prevent learning? ...
At the age Einstein was talking about he would have meant rote learning with no play learning but we don't do that in my country anymore, maybe they do it in yours but then that'd mean your 'great beast' only applies to your country which I suspect it does as I suspect you are from the US and the 'great beast' is consumer capitalism with neo-liberalism applied to education. Although this is ironic as it's pretty much what Plato advocated, i.e. state education although it does differ wildly as he thought the early years should use the arts and play to teach and only later should reasoning be taught. However his aim was pretty much the same, to produce citizens in the service of the state with each at the level suitable for their abilities although he was far from the American system as it was to be free and based upon merit not cash.
If this is true why hasn’t everyone else learned the same thing?
Take a look around, you see any ex-communist states clamouring for its return?
The human condition is what makes you live as a plurality often in opposition to yourself rather than as inner unity. ...
You'll have to clarify?
Plurality can only be reconciled through imagination necessary to make plurality livable. ...
And I'm betting I know better tools than you do. If my guess is right as to what you are talking about.
Read Plato’s Cave and you’ll learn of the human condition. ...
Pretty much read his whole output, can you say the same?
Regardless, he knew what was coming. It was obviously inhuman and typical of what happens in the world. ...
Not typical, that's why it's infamous.
This raises the question of why we are inhuman and what it would take to become human with a cosmic perspective. ...
But we're not 'inhuman' are we, just human with all it's faults. Although there's an irony there as it's having a 'cosmic perspective' or a 'greater good above and beyond' that tends to lead to such actions is my opinion.
Einstein wrote:
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.

The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.
Cosmic men appreciate their insignificance and strive to develop their understanding so as to open to human meaning and purpose within the conscious universe. Cave Man is content to worship the Great Beast as the greatest expression of conscious awareness.
What on earth do you mean by the 'Great Beast' here?

Einstein is talking about the lawlike laws of Physics, not some 'God' but if he was it'd be Spinoza's 'God' and 'intelligence' is not applicable in the way you wish it.
What is my theist dogmatism?
Hard to say as you are very coy about expressing it but at a guess I'd say a pantheism of the christian 'God' with a mystical telephone and a great big hierarchy where one must know their place.
Man comprising the Great Beast is an automaton lacking consciousness, conscious attention, and will capable of actualizing conscious awareness of the universal reality so just goes with the flow and becomes a slave to societal whims. That is secular slavery. ...
Better than blind obedience to an unjust 'God' and his disciples is my thought but then I think this 'universal reality' is a myth made-up by such disciples who cannot function as Man and wish to gain height through no merit of their own. Do I think there are better ways of thinking and that they should be taught to all, of course as in this matter I agree with Plato.
Of course there are the exceptions not content with secular slavery but instead insist on opening to the potential for awakening to become what they are and acquire a human perspective. ...
Let me guess! That'll be you would it?
They are an annoyance to secularism which seeks to eliminate them as a disturbance to the ways of cave life.
They are an annoyance as generally they can't walk their talk and given I believe in the cock-up theory and the law of unintended consequences they generally cause more harm than good as they apparently cannot get their message over in a form that is reproducible by the average pleb.
Last edited by Arising_uk on Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:38 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Greta
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Greta »

Nick_A wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:05 pm Greta
So the problem with education is not "secularisation", it's rationalisation. Too many people consuming too much from an ever-shrinking resource base. So resources are rationed/rationalised - music and art are the first to go, plus all the interesting and inspiring side stories that bring a syllabus to life. Learn the stuff, pass your grades, welcome to the machine.
The Great Beast is a living machine and like other beasts it is a creature that arose from the earth, is psychologically attached to the earth, and reacts in accordance with earthly influences. You are an atom of the Beast. What would it take for you to transcend your defense of secularization and rationalization so as to become the cosmic woman?
If I am defending anything, it's attacks on logic and rationality in this "post fact" world.

The world has suffered for centuries under the yoke of religion. Due to religion's lack of "certainties" - that some bloke can simply say "this is so" and no one argues - means there is a lack of checks and balances of power, hence the rampant paedophilia in religious schools and the continued cyncial imposts on taxpayers.

I think it's time to give the non religious a chance to lead - and not just for a couple of years, but for centuries, as the religious did. You seem to believe that secularism exists - I don't. What I see is societies still controlled by theists, who vastly outnumber secular thinking politicians. Why? Because politics is brutal and you need supportive networks - and the old Christian boys' networks completely dominate the polity of western nations.

So I say it's time to give secularism a chance (although deep down I know the change won't be conscious but forced on us by circumstance, when the frippery of religious belief becomes a luxury we cannot afford). I know you claim that the religions I denounce are "secularised". I think you need a different word. If religions have always been "secularized" and thus problematic, then that is inherent in religion.

Basically it's "organised" religion and I think "organisation" comes to the crux of your complaints, albeit confused with secularism. The problem is organisation - big entities need to organise their parts. However, speaking as such "parts" neither you nor I especially want to organised to suit some fucking institution :lol: . Some people do - they like to feel part of something bigger than themselves. That is because they cannot associate themselves with the Earth and the universe, because those thing are so uncaring. By contrast, human groups ostensibly seem a better candidate for "something bigger" in people's lives; at least institutions (occasionally) actually care whether you live or die. The Earth and universe does not.

So we can at least agree that "something bigger than ourselves" really is the Earth and biosphere, the galaxy and the universe generally.

This particular "secular" woman daily looks into the sky and remembers - I am part of all that - the endless eternity of space and its things, just a small piece of the Earth, scuttling over the very surface. Even with all of humanity's attainments, they have only penetrated 12kms into the Earth before the reinforced drill melted. We really are Flatlanders. It's humbling.

I like to remember this because, if I thought that people's bullshit was the be-all-and-end-all, I would be a miserable little person living in a miserable little world. Instead, as my dog sniffs her pee-mails I can look up into the sky, considering what is beyond our protective atmospheric "agar" and being about as cosmic as is practicable for one living in society.

Being cosmic is easy. All it takes to be a cosmic man or woman is to remember our broader existential situation. My understanding is this is where death is shocking because the functional human systems that we spend our lives focused on are seen as relative trivia when we finally connot avoid facing eternity.
Nick_A
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Nick_A »

A_uk
At the age Einstein was talking about he would have meant rote learning with no play learning but we don't do that in my country anymore, maybe they do it in yours but then that'd mean your 'great beast' only applies to your country which I suspect it does as I suspect you are from the US and the 'great beast' is consumer capitalism with neo-liberalism applied to education. Although this is ironic as it's pretty much what Plato advocated, i.e. state education although it does differ wildly as he thought the early years should use the arts and play to teach and only later should reasoning be taught. However his aim was pretty much the same, to produce citizens in the service of the state with each at the level suitable for their abilities although he was far from the American system as it was to be free and based upon merit not cash.
Weil gets the term "Great Beast" from Plato. Specifically, this passage from Book VI of his Republic (here Plato critiques those who are "wise" through their study of society):
I might compare them to a man who should study the tempers and desires of a mighty strong beast who is fed by him--he would learn how to approach and handle him, also at what times and from what causes he is dangerous or the reverse, and what is the meaning of his several cries, and by what sounds, when another utters them, he is soothed or infuriated; and you may suppose further, that when, by continually attending upon him, he has become perfect in all this, he calls his knowledge wisdom, and makes of it a system or art, which he proceeds to teach, although he has no real notion of what he means by the principles or passions of which he is speaking, but calls this honourable and that dishonourable, or good or evil, or just or unjust, all in accordance with the tastes and tempers of the great brute. Good he pronounces to be that in which the beast delights and evil to be that which he dislikes...
Society, the "mighty strong beast." There's the obvious power of many hands working together. But Plato points to a deeper, pseudo-moral power of the many, the group. Weil also describes this:
The power of the social element. Agreement between several men brings with it a feeling of reality. It brings with it also a sense of duty. Divergence, where this agreement is concerned, appears as a sin. Hence all returns to the fold are possible. The state of conformity is an imitation of grace.
Because of this imitation, this substitution for God, Weil says things like, "The social order is irreducibly that of the prince of this world." And connects society, the many, the crowd, with "the world" that Jesus spoke against so often. For example, in his prayer in John 17:
"I have manifested your name to the men who you gave me out of the world... I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those who you have given me...

"I have given them your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."
While people should serve the needs of the state, the state should serve the “GOOD” as described by Plato. Secularism forgets about the source of everything and adopts the role of the good and left to its own devices can only produce the results of hypocrisy. Where a philosopher King should govern a Platonic society, an anti-christ capable of projecting a charismatic image must be the ideal leader of a secular society worshiping image..

Capitalism is just a tool. The problem is the fallen human condition living by imagination which perverts the tool.
The human condition is what makes you live as a plurality often in opposition to yourself rather than as inner unity. ...

You'll have to clarify?
We receive the external world by means of intellect, emotion, and sensation. They would act as ONE, as inner unity united by consciousness for evolved individuals. They do not function as one with cave men. They are connected by imagination taking the place of consciousness. In this fallen state we can be thinking one thing while feeling another and sensing something else all at the same time. Imagination enables us to accept it as normal.
But we're not 'inhuman' are we, just human with all it's faults. Although there's an irony there as it's having a 'cosmic perspective' or a 'greater good above and beyond' that tends to lead to such actions is my opinion.
Is an acorn an oak tree or the seed of an oak with the potential for becoming an oak? Only a very small amount of acorns become oaks. The great majority are consumed by the earth and animals that dwell on the earth

Conscious evolution offers the potential for man on earth to consciously evolve into a higher quality of being much like an acorn becomes an oak mechanically. Like acorns, only a rare few men on earth reach the height of Man’s conscious evolution.
Einstein is talking about the lawlike laws of Physics, not some 'God' but if he was it'd be Spinoza's 'God' and 'intelligence' is not applicable in the way you wish it.


Since I’ve explained over and over that I believe in Plotinus’ concept of the ONE and Panentheism that asserts the source both outside of the limitations of time and space but simultaneously within the universe within time and space I can’t see why you’ve written this.
Hard to say as you are very coy about expressing it but at a guess I'd say a pantheism of the christian 'God' with a mystical telephone and a great big hierarchy where one must know their place.
Christianity doesn’t have a personal god. You are thinking of Christendom or man made Christianity which is probably the cause of your justified concern for blind obedience to an unjust god.
Of course there are the exceptions not content with secular slavery but instead insist on opening to the potential for awakening to become what they are and acquire a human perspective. ...

Let me guess! That'll be you would it?
I hope so. I don’t see the advantage of either blind belief or blind denial. What is the crime in consciously awakening to reality even if it is so annoying?
They are an annoyance as generally they can't walk their talk and given I believe in the cock-up theory and the law of unintended consequences they generally cause more harm than good as they apparently cannot get their message over in a form that is reproducible by the average pleb.
Very true. But what of those like Simone Weil who walked the talk? They lived their philosophy. She has opened many eyes not by intent but by her personal efforts. Those like T.S Eliot and Albert Camus spent their own money organizing and publishing her essays and personal letters not for profit but because they felt their value. She had the ability to transmit an awakening influence because of the purity of her writings.

Water seeks its own level. There is a minority unwilling to either blindly believe or deny but are driven to experience objective human meaning and purpose that doesn’t arise from the earth. They are open to receive from above through intuition. I support their efforts whenever possible.
Nick_A
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Nick_A »

Greta
If I am defending anything, it's attacks on logic and rationality in this "post fact" world.
Yes, you re defending against the realistic experience of intuition and apriori knowledge not the result of logic and rationality.
The world has suffered for centuries under the yoke of religion. Due to religion's lack of "certainties" - that some bloke can simply say "this is so" and no one argues - means there is a lack of checks and balances of power, hence the rampant paedophilia in religious schools and the continued cyncial imposts on taxpayers.

I think it's time to give the non religious a chance to lead - and not just for a couple of years, but for centuries, as the religious did. You seem to believe that secularism exists - I don't. What I see is societies still controlled by theists, who vastly outnumber secular thinking politicians. Why? Because politics is brutal and you need supportive networks - and the old Christian boys' networks completely dominate the polity of western nations.
Maybe Atlantis was governed by the essence of religion but in modern times secularized religion has ruled the day. Secularized religions have their personal god’s and secularism has the Great Beast as its god. Both are secular expressions. What makes you think that the Great Beast will make a better God because since we ARE as we ARE, everything remains as it IS.
So we can at least agree that "something bigger than ourselves" really is the Earth and biosphere, the galaxy and the universe generally.
Yes, but can you agree that we are creatures of the earth with the potential for the essence of man to return to its origin which is not of the earth?
This particular "secular" woman daily looks into the sky and remembers - I am part of all that - the endless eternity of space and its things, just a small piece of the Earth, scuttling over the very surface. Even with all of humanity's attainments, they have only penetrated 12kms into the Earth before the reinforced drill melted. We really are Flatlanders. It's humbling.
True.
I like to remember this because, if I thought that people's bullshit was the be-all-and-end-all, I would be a miserable little person living in a miserable little world. Instead, as my dog sniffs her pee-mails I can look up into the sky, considering what is beyond our protective atmospheric "agar" and being about as cosmic as is practicable for one living in society.
Cave man is concerned with life on earth and sometimes experiences something greater. Cave man soon forgets and flatland life continues

Cosmic man doesn’t forget the experienced conscious connection with higher consciousness. Conscious man receives a quality of energy necessary for awakening from above and gives to below. He actualizes the Hermetic axiom: “as above, so below.” This connection makes the experience of objective conscience possible where higher values are felt and acted upon as natural in contrast to the natural hypocrisy of cave life..
seeds
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by seeds »

Nick_A wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:35 am Is an acorn an oak tree or the seed of an oak with the potential for becoming an oak? Only a very small amount of acorns become oaks. The great majority are consumed by the earth and animals that dwell on the earth

Conscious evolution offers the potential for man on earth to consciously evolve into a higher quality of being much like an acorn becomes an oak mechanically. Like acorns, only a rare few men on earth reach the height of Man’s conscious evolution.
Nick, with this “...only a rare few men...” business, you seem to be promoting the most exclusive religion I’ve ever heard of.

(And by the way, are there not a “rare few women” that make it into this club? - other than Simone, of course. I suggest that you try to be a little more mindful of how you word things.)

The bottom line is, you are complicating life far more than it really is.

And lastly, I simply can’t resist presenting my own personal take on the “acorn” metaphor...

Image

Image

(For a clearer view of the dialogue, click on the following link and scroll down - http://theultimateseeds.com/oakleytheacorn.htm)
_______
Belinda
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Belinda »

Nick_A wrote:
The power of the social element. Agreement between several men brings with it a feeling of reality. It brings with it also a sense of duty. Divergence, where this agreement is concerned, appears as a sin. Hence all returns to the fold are possible. The state of conformity is an imitation of grace.
Because of this imitation, this substitution for God, Weil says things like, "The social order is irreducibly that of the prince of this world." And connects society, the many, the crowd, with "the world" that Jesus spoke against so often. For example, in his prayer in John 17:
"I have manifested your name to the men who you gave me out of the world... I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those who you have given me...

"I have given them your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."
While people should serve the needs of the state, the state should serve the “GOOD” as described by Plato. Secularism forgets about the source of everything and adopts the role of the good and left to its own devices can only produce the results of hypocrisy. Where a philosopher King should govern a Platonic society, an anti-christ capable of projecting a charismatic image must be the ideal leader of a secular society worshiping image..

Capitalism is just a tool. The problem is the fallen human condition living by imagination which perverts the tool.
One modern manifestation of an individual's courage to defy the social establishment is the whistle blower. Chelsea Manning, for instance. And those women who have spoken publicly about male bullying in Hollywood, and more recently women from the popular music industry.

Another defiance of the great beast is investigative journalism which helps to reveal official bullying by institutions such as the British government who stole small children from their mothers and sent them to Australia and occasionally to lives of slavery and child torture there. Read the true story below about the Christian Brothers at Bindoon, and the social worker who outed the real sins of this manifestation of the great beast.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... mmonwealth

This is what we should be emulating, true heroes who defy the great beast of the establishment. Not some metaphysical God.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Arising_uk »

Nick_A wrote:Yes, you re defending against the realistic experience of intuition and apriori knowledge not the result of logic and rationality. ...
Er!? The tautologies and contradictions of Logic are exactly apriori knowledge and because the world is logical we can have rationality.
Nick_A
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Nick_A »

Seeds
Nick, with this “...only a rare few men...” business, you seem to be promoting the most exclusive religion I’ve ever heard of.

(And by the way, are there not a “rare few women” that make it into this club? - other than Simone, of course. I suggest that you try to be a little more mindful of how you word things.)

The bottom line is, you are complicating life far more than it really is.
My acorn analogy only seems elitist and exclusive to you because I distinguish between the inner or essential human with the outer which is our acquired personality. Jacob Needleman offers a profound explanation of the acorn analogy with his description of "Acornology" in his book "Lost Christianity."
I began my lecture that morning from just this point. There is an innate element in human nature, I argued that can grow and develop only through impressions of truth received in the organism like a special nourishing energy. To this innate element I gave a name - perhaps not a very good name - the "higher unconscious." My aim was to draw an extremely sharp distinction between the unconscious that Freud had identified and the unconscious referred to (though not by that name) in the Christian tradition.

Imagine, I said, that you are a scientist and you have before you the object known as the acorn. Let us further imagine that you have never before seen such an object and that you certainly do not know that it can grow into an oak. You carefully observe these acorns day after day and soon you notice that after a while they crack open and die. Pity! How to improve the acorn? So that it will live longer. You make careful, exquisitely precise chemical analyses of the material inside the acorn and, after much effort, you succeed in isolating the substance that controls the condition of the shell. Lo and behold, you are now in the position to produce acorns which will last far longer than the others, acorns whose shells will perhaps never crack. Beautiful!

The question before us, therefore, is whether or not modern psychology is only a version of acornology.
The Great Beast celebrates the husk of the acorn (The indoctrinated personality) at the expense of the kernel of life within it (the inner man). It is only the inner man that consciously evolves. The personality is just a temporary artificial creation.

The husk protects and nourishes the seed within the acorn until it is strong enough to break free of it. Then if the conditions such as soil, water, and light are adequate the seed can grow into an oak. The fallen human condition has made it so that we honor the personality and remain largely unaware of the inner man. Naturally then, the inner man is gradually destroyed from not being allowed to grow.

“Give me beauty in the inward soul; may the outward and the inward man be at one.”

Secularism has no need to recognize the inner man and is only concerned with an indoctrinated personality. That is why philosophy furthering intuition and the essence of religion is vanishing in modern society obsessed with the image our personality offers. That being the case, how can more than just a few continue to make the transition between the end of mechanical evolution into the beginning of conscious evolution. The influence of the Great Beast denying the inner man is too strong.
Nick_A
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Nick_A »

Belinda wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:22 am Nick_A wrote:
The power of the social element. Agreement between several men brings with it a feeling of reality. It brings with it also a sense of duty. Divergence, where this agreement is concerned, appears as a sin. Hence all returns to the fold are possible. The state of conformity is an imitation of grace.
Because of this imitation, this substitution for God, Weil says things like, "The social order is irreducibly that of the prince of this world." And connects society, the many, the crowd, with "the world" that Jesus spoke against so often. For example, in his prayer in John 17:
"I have manifested your name to the men who you gave me out of the world... I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those who you have given me...

"I have given them your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."
While people should serve the needs of the state, the state should serve the “GOOD” as described by Plato. Secularism forgets about the source of everything and adopts the role of the good and left to its own devices can only produce the results of hypocrisy. Where a philosopher King should govern a Platonic society, an anti-christ capable of projecting a charismatic image must be the ideal leader of a secular society worshiping image..

Capitalism is just a tool. The problem is the fallen human condition living by imagination which perverts the tool.
One modern manifestation of an individual's courage to defy the social establishment is the whistle blower. Chelsea Manning, for instance. And those women who have spoken publicly about male bullying in Hollywood, and more recently women from the popular music industry.

Another defiance of the great beast is investigative journalism which helps to reveal official bullying by institutions such as the British government who stole small children from their mothers and sent them to Australia and occasionally to lives of slavery and child torture there. Read the true story below about the Christian Brothers at Bindoon, and the social worker who outed the real sins of this manifestation of the great beast.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... mmonwealth

This is what we should be emulating, true heroes who defy the great beast of the establishment. Not some metaphysical God.
The Great Beast does not defy itself. it just turns in circles.
No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. Albert Einstein
...

Nothing changes from turning in circles. A higher quality of consciousness is required requiring the help of grace which secularism denies so the Beast remains the same. Only individuals can change.
davidm
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by davidm »

seeds wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:41 am
Nick_A wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:35 am Is an acorn an oak tree or the seed of an oak with the potential for becoming an oak? Only a very small amount of acorns become oaks. The great majority are consumed by the earth and animals that dwell on the earth

Conscious evolution offers the potential for man on earth to consciously evolve into a higher quality of being much like an acorn becomes an oak mechanically. Like acorns, only a rare few men on earth reach the height of Man’s conscious evolution.
Nick, with this “...only a rare few men...” business, you seem to be promoting the most exclusive religion I’ve ever heard of.

(And by the way, are there not a “rare few women” that make it into this club? - other than Simone, of course. I suggest that you try to be a little more mindful of how you word things.)

The bottom line is, you are complicating life far more than it really is.

And lastly, I simply can’t resist presenting my own personal take on the “acorn” metaphor...

Image

Image

(For a clearer view of the dialogue, click on the following link and scroll down - http://theultimateseeds.com/oakleytheacorn.htm)
_______
This is why analogies are so prone to FAIL.

There is no reason to think that you are an acorn that is going to grow into some kind of "spiritual tree" after you die. To my knowledge, you have given NO REASON AT ALL to think that anything you write or believe is TRUE -- it's pure wishful thinking.

Dream on, though, if it makes you feel good.
Belinda
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Belinda »

Nick_A wrote the following gobbledegook:
The Great Beast does not defy itself. it just turns in circles.
No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. Albert Einstein
...

Nothing changes from turning in circles. A higher quality of consciousness is required requiring the help of grace which secularism denies so the Beast remains the same. Only individuals can change.
You are a great man for writing nonsense prose :roll:
Belinda
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Belinda »

Nick_A wrote the following gobbledegook:
The Great Beast does not defy itself. it just turns in circles.
No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. Albert Einstein
...

Nothing changes from turning in circles. A higher quality of consciousness is required requiring the help of grace which secularism denies so the Beast remains the same. Only individuals can change.
You are a great man for writing nonsense prose :roll:

I am glad that this conversation exists, because this conversation helps to identify what the great beast is by showing what the great beast is not.
Nick_A
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Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Nick_A »

Belinda wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:38 pm Nick_A wrote the following gobbledegook:
The Great Beast does not defy itself. it just turns in circles.
No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. Albert Einstein
...

Nothing changes from turning in circles. A higher quality of consciousness is required requiring the help of grace which secularism denies so the Beast remains the same. Only individuals can change.
You are a great man for writing nonsense prose :roll:

I am glad that this conversation exists, because this conversation helps to identify what the great beast is by showing what the great beast is not.
You disagree with Plato which is fine. This is how Plato and Simone understand the Great Beast, It is nonsense for you and the majority agree with you.
Weil gets the term "Great Beast" from Plato. Specifically, this passage from Book VI of his Republic (here Plato critiques those who are "wise" through their study of society):
I might compare them to a man who should study the tempers and desires of a mighty strong beast who is fed by him--he would learn how to approach and handle him, also at what times and from what causes he is dangerous or the reverse, and what is the meaning of his several cries, and by what sounds, when another utters them, he is soothed or infuriated; and you may suppose further, that when, by continually attending upon him, he has become perfect in all this, he calls his knowledge wisdom, and makes of it a system or art, which he proceeds to teach, although he has no real notion of what he means by the principles or passions of which he is speaking, but calls this honourable and that dishonourable, or good or evil, or just or unjust, all in accordance with the tastes and tempers of the great brute. Good he pronounces to be that in which the beast delights and evil to be that which he dislikes...
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