Einstein and the Cosmic Man

For all things philosophical.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Post Reply
Nick_A
Posts: 6208
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Nick_A »

AMod wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:39 am Nick_A,
Nick_A wrote:Well if a thread isn't breaking any rules and yet introduces a topic affecting the inner life of children, why lock it even if some are trying to shout it down? Which is more offensive: the shouters or the topic?
Neither, it had run its course.

AMod.
The question of Secular Intolerance and its effects on the young attracted to the human need to experience something greater than itself has run its course. What was concluded? We cannot say nothing. This implies it doesn’t really matter. Tell this to suffering kids.

Jacob Needleman in this interview describes his experience with the limitations of academic philosophy in respect to the human need for philosophy as the love of wisdom. Of course the secularists will shout it down because it suggests a reality greater than that of collective Man. It is a reality that intuition as described by Einstein invites us to open to.

Jacob Needleman describes the effect the effect of metaphysical repression on the young. Obviously expressions of secular intolerance increases this repression. What young person feels adequate to defy the growls of their professors? They choose to die inside.

So for you the topic had run its course. Fortunately we have those like Plato, Einstein, Simone Weil, Jacob Needleman and others who never believed or believe the topic has run its course and support allowing those able to awaken to the reality and the harm of metaphysical repression and the expressions of secular intolerance making it possible. For these people the topic will never run its course.


http://www.conversations.org/story.php?sid=1

…………………….. I remember I was a freshman at Harvard, in one of my first philosophy classes there. The professor started by asking—like I do sometimes, like professors do—what do you expect to get out of philosophy? I put up my hand and said, "I want to know why I'm living, why we die. Does God exist? What are we here for?" I went on an on like that, and I could see around me that there was this silence. My throat got dry, and I just felt awful. At first I'd thought that I was going to speak for the whole human race. And the professor, of course, was saying, "Yes. Go on." He knew he had one. Finally I just couldn't go on any more. Then he said, "Yes. But you see, that's not philosophy. If you want to know those things, you have to see a psychiatrist or a priest. This is not philosophy." It was such a shock.
I recovered quite well, but I had to find a few other people who shared my hunger. It is the hunger you're speaking of. That is what Plato called eros—a word that's come down to us which has taken on a sexual association. But for Plato it had to do, in part, with a striving that is innate in us, a striving to participate with one's mind, one's consciousness, in something greater than oneself. A love of wisdom, if you like, a love of being.
Eros is depicted in Plato's text, The Symposium, as half man, half god, a kind of intermediate force between the gods and mortals. It is a very interesting idea. Eros is what gives birth to philosophy. Modern philosophy often translates the word "wonder" merely as "curiosity," the desire to figure things out, or to intellectually solve problems rather than confronting the depth of these questions, pondering, reflecting, being humbled by them. In this way, philosophy becomes an exercise in meaningless ingenuity.
I did learn to play that game, and then to avoid it.
My students at SF State were very hungry for what most of us, down deeply, really want from philosophy. When we honor those unanswerable questions and open them and deepen them, students are very happy about it, very interested in a deep quiet way.

RW: It is really very hard to find that, I believe.

JN: Some years ago I had a chance to teach a course in philosophy in high school. I got ten or twelve very gifted kids at this wonderful school, San Francisco University High School. In that first class I said, "Now just imagine, as if this was a fairy tale, imagine you are in front of the wisest person in the world, not me, but the wisest person there is and you can only ask one question. What would you ask?" At first they giggled and then they saw that I was very serious. So then they started writing. What came back was astonishing to me. I couldn't understand it at first. About half of the things that came back had little handwriting at the bottom or the sides of the paper in the margin. Questions like, Why do we live? Why do we die? What is the brain for? Questions of the heart. But they were written in the margins as though they were saying, do we really have permission to express these questions? We're not going to be laughed at? It was as though this was something that had been repressed.

RW: Fascinating.

JN: It's what I call metaphysical repression. It's in our culture and It's much worse than sexual repression. It represses eros and I think that maybe that's where art can be of help sometimes. Some art……………….
User avatar
Greta
Posts: 4389
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Greta »

So what? You had already said these things how many hundred times?

So you believe that if you are not permitted endless repetition then you are being shut down? More victimisation by secularists?

I see you as a troll. You openly admit that you main aim is to irritate those who "worship the Great Beast". All we get is repetitive accusations aimed at nothing, aside from individuals. You don't want to learn and even when civilised types like Belinda or Dubious to understand you, you criticise their efforts.

Whatever, theism has already cont rolled education. You and yours had your chance for centuries and you blew it. People are still getting over the scars left by theists in education who abused their trust.

Theism is the most repressive system of all. You are not allowed to ask "Why am I alive?" because the answer is written in the Bible and that all they are allowed to think. By contrast, atheists would never judge that question, and most would say they don't know or "you make your own meaning", which I never much cared for but it's at least less controlling than the theocratic rule you seek.
Nick_A
Posts: 6208
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Nick_A »

Greta you really are the ultimate fool. You are willing to sacrifice anything including the inner lives of the young just to further your agenda and provide a feeling of self justification.

Is the heart of philosophy worth fighting for or are they just repetitive outdated concepts? Should the problems of modern times be put into the context of the great philosophical concepts such as Plato’s cave? You say no. All that iron age stuff must be abandoned in favor of arguing fashionable ideas such as what you are entitled to and Donald Trump. You are only concerned with cheap self serving egoism and will do what you can to struggle against the traditional value of philosophy.

This is why you are willing to sacrifice the young. They have no spiritual value in the context of your agenda.
“When once a certain class of people has been placed by the temporal and spiritual authorities outside the ranks of those whose life has value, then nothing comes more naturally to men than murder.” ~ Simone Weil
The inner lives of the young have no value for you. Only the outer shell, the appearance, is important. Feel free to spiritually kill the inner man. It makes you feel important.

Einstein spoke of the potential cosmic man. This is foolish for you since you believe you already are the cosmic man and all you need are more facts to stuff your outer shell with and advance into the universe.

Callous selfishness. The modern alternative to the ideas offered by the greats of the past. As Stephanie Strickland wrote of Simone Weil:
Weil, our shrewdest political observer since Machiavelli, was never deceived by the glamor of power, and she committed herself to resisting force in whatever guise. More 'prophet' than 'saint,' more 'wise woman' than either, she bore a particular kind of bodily knowledge that the Western tradition cannot absorb. Simone Weil belongs to a world culture, still to be formed, where the voices of multiple classes, castes, races, genders, ethnicities, nationalities, and religions, can be respected. To achieve this culture is an impossible task, but, as Weil would remind us, not on that account to be forsaken.

Today we look to Weil for hope, for meditation, for the bridge a body makes. She knew that the truth had been 'taken captive,' and that we must 'seek at greater depth our own source,' because power destroys the past, the past with its treasures of alternative ideals that stand in judgment on the present.
Relish in the spiritual kill, Attack the great ideas inviting us to see ourselves as we are and acquire the humility to become human as opposed to imagining self importance. Kill the cosmic man. Progress! Sick stuff.
marjoram_blues
Posts: 1629
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by marjoram_blues »

Such bile you spew. Rick needs to come along and slunge this place out with hot, soapy water.
User avatar
Greta
Posts: 4389
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Greta »

Nick, your focus is on "resistance" and this translates to "annoy" and "try to harm".

Philosophy forums are not here for people to simply attack each other. If you are peaceful, it is quite possible to have a pleasant sharing of observations about existence rather than fighting. You should try it sometime. For the record, I have no "agenda".

However, if one only seeks to annoy ideological foes [sic] then it should be done through logic and clarity. If your concepts and ideas are not strong or clear enough to interest others without resorting to bile, manipulative rhetorical devices and absurd allegations, then it's time to rethink. Constant wholesale judgement and character slurs against others simply reflect the weakness of your positions, not to mention your regular use of gimmicks and slogans and wrongly interpreted quotes.

If you were even slightly interested in actually convincing people rather than trolling you would not just simply judge and insult. Guilt and judgement are a guaranteed turnoff, something eeven you might know. However, you don't seem interested in convincing others, just to "annoy those who worship the Great Beast" because you believe they deserve punishment and have deigned yourself as the Grand Online Inquisitor :lol:

For the record, churches lost their moral authority and the right to speak about welfare of the young after being exposed as amongst the worst of child abusers.
Dubious
Posts: 4000
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 7:40 am

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Dubious »

Nick_A wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:58 pm Relish in the spiritual kill, Attack the great ideas inviting us to see ourselves as we are and acquire the humility to become human as opposed to imagining self importance.
..by "imagining self-importance", are your referring to the type of imagination which proclaims that "man is the measure of all things" as mentioned by Protagoras 2400 years ago, a hyperbolic self-endorsement barely adjusted during the ensuing Theist ages? if so you are correct but only within the context of its own historically constrained meta-narratives. In short, having once centralized our importance within the limited cosmos of the ancients...a sentiment understandable in its time, has now suffered total deflation which secularism, thankfully, made consistent with neutrality as the opposite of "self-importance!
Kill the cosmic man. Progress! Sick stuff.
Indeed! The cosmos poops on the Cosmic Man! Without hesitancy it could flush him down the toilet no matter how cosmic he imagines himself to be! Even if it's only an "accident", the universe has never apologized for any such unjustified event. That which created us owes no explanation; it acknowledges neither error or truth. We can usually establish the reason ourselves by retro-actively thinking what led to the denoument that maybe the Cosmic Man was just too stupid to survive. Cosmic man in living up to the name becomes Cosmic by knowing more about the cosmos and on how it mandates us to rethink our values in a perpetual aura of flux...a sans theistic but completely ongoing SECULAR project.
Nick_A
Posts: 6208
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Nick_A »

Greta, of course my focus is on resistance. I resist the efforts of secular intolerance as a means for producing metaphysical repression. Resisting secular intolerance is annoying to secularists and atheists who feel intellectually superior so entitled to express it.

Several posts back I quoted Jesus explaining that the world hates him so will also hate those who support the Christ. Jesus was not trying to be annoying. It was just the effect of the message on minds closed to it. I have no desire to be annoying. I do know that the ideas I appreciate discussing as the core of religion and philosophy are annoying to the secular mind.

You are the one using character slurs. Who have I said anything negative about other than you? Yet consider the character slurs from secularists towards me. I’m not complaining because I know it has to be. The great transcendent ideas of philosophy and religion are offensive to the secular mind. However I do know that there are those who don’t post but appreciate reading of the alternatives to secularism and fundamentalism. So I post the words of people I admire and those who sense truth in them can follow up in their own way.

On this thread for example I’ll continue posting and commenting on Einstein’s observations. They will be annoying but perhaps some lurkers may be inclined to participate regardless of the expressions of secular intolerance they may experience.
“The danger is not lest the soul should doubt whether there is any bread, but lest, by a lie, it should persuade itself that it is not hungry.” ~ Simone Weil
A lurker cannot allow secular intolerants to do that to them. Intellectually doubt. There is nothing wrong with that and it is necessary to separate the wheat from the tares. But when the secular intolerants intimidate you into believing it doesn’t matter, you will lose something important and gradually die inside. Don't let that happen to you. No good can come from it.
AMod
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:32 pm

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by AMod »

Nick_A,
Nick_A wrote: The question of Secular Intolerance and its effects on the young attracted to the human need to experience something greater than itself has run its course. What was concluded? We cannot say nothing. This implies it doesn’t really matter. Tell this to suffering kids.
So you said umpteen times.

Nothing new was being said and as such I thought it had run its course.
For these people the topic will never run its course. ...
If they come here they will find differently.

Please stop bothering me as I still remember that you left here with the intention of bad-mouthing us upon other forums and yet have the gall to come back after you've been banned upon those forums. You're lucky I'm not as intolerant as you would be if you had the power.

AMod.
Nick_A
Posts: 6208
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Nick_A »

Dubious
.by "imagining self-importance", are your referring to the type of imagination which proclaims that "man is the measure of all things" as mentioned by Protagoras 2400 years ago, a hyperbolic self-endorsement barely adjusted during the ensuing Theist ages? if so you are correct but only within the context of its own historically constrained meta-narratives. In short, having once centralized our importance within the limited cosmos of the ancients...a sentiment understandable in its time, has now suffered total deflation which secularism, thankfully, made consistent with neutrality as the opposite of "self-importance!
No. I’m explaining living in imagination as a natural result from living as a conditioned atom of the Great Beast. Let me pause for a commercial. If you are a young female student frustrated over the lack of respected female philosophers, consider Simone Weil. I once introduced Simone to a student searching for a woman to include in her paper. She researched and used Simone and her prof was very impressed. She aced the paper.

Society is double edged. It offers advantages but destroys the need for truth and replaces it with imagination supporting the ways of the Beast. Consider the following.


http://www.hermitary.com/solitude/weil.html
In an aphorism of "The Great Beast," Weil begins the transition from analyzing society to discovering a solution or antidote. Here her thoughts hearken to anthropological thinking circulating in the early twentieth century, which maintained that society is a project of individual relationships, a projection given life and meaning separate from those relationships, a projection to which power and thought and authority is renounced. This is not a renunciation to the fictional cooperative called "society" but to individuals as authorities, who then contrive the symbols, ploys, and coercive social structures. Anthropology called these "totems"--Weil does not use the term--which define God, religion, and the norms of society via the power of institutions to interpret and sanction.
According to Weil, the person's accession to society, the individual's renunciation of values to the collective as defined by a small group, is based on ignorance and fear, fear that without society (which is to say the state), people will collapse into crime and evil. The social and collective is seen as transcending individuals, as a supernatural entity from which nationalism and war is as normal as science, progress, and consumption. All of these evils are taking place simultaneously in a social context. The individual has probably never reflected on these issues at all, never acknowledged his or her degree of complicity in this system. But, say the apologist for the Great Beast, the individual need have no direct responsibility,
The collective is the object of all idolatry, this it is which chains us to the earth. In the case of avarice, gold is the social order. In the case of ambition, power is the social order.
Thus society itself is the Great Beast, not some particular product of society, not even the state, the mode of production, the capitalist class, or any other social product. The weight of humanity is a heavy and ponderous gravity, a force but a contrived force to which the individual remains oblivious……………………………
I think you’ve misunderstood what was meant by the cosmic man. The cosmic man has inwardly developed to so as to experience universal laws and the spirit within them as the source of human meaning and purpose. Einstein is referring to what is known in the East as the dharma. Why would the universe oppose its purpose?

http://www.speakingtree.in/allslides/wh ... law/278442
• Dharma (Sanskrit:

dharma refers to refers to the underlying order in nature and human life and behavior considered to be in accord with that order. The word Dharma is used to mean nyaya (Justice), what is right in a given circumstance, moral values of life, pious obligations of individuals, righteous conduct in every sphere of activity, being helpful to other living beings, giving charity to individuals in need of it or to a public cause or alms to the needy, natural qualities or characteristics or properties of living beings and things, duty and law as also constitutional law. Dharma is the law that maintains the cosmic order as well as the individual and social order. Dharma sustains human life in harmony with nature. When we follow dharma, we are in conformity with the law that sustains the universe.


Dharma is a natural instinct in all of us that stimulates us to act at a subconscious level, without thinking.

The Eternal Principle of Dharma Dharma is our true place in the cosmic process: in time, in space, in awareness, in thought, deed and desire. The eternal principle of Dharma determines the harmonious functions of the cosmic machine. In order that we fulfill our role in the divine play we must behave within our Dharma. That is, we ought to do the right thing, at the right time, in the right way, and for the right reason. By this we attain balance. To establish balance within yourself ensures your own welfare as well as the welfare of society. It opens the path prepared for us by the divine.
Cosmic Man has opened to universal meaning and purpose as it pertains to Man. Secular Cave Man relies on man made interpretations of universal laws with the purpose of serving temporary cave ideals.

Einstein suggests that we can open to the experience of universal meaning and purpose through intuition. Simone Weil asserts that we need the help of grace to actualize our goal. This must be condemned by secularism to preserve its self importance. Most will give in to the Beast and be psychologically compelled to live a life of reaction to it. A minority will seek to consciously experience objective human meaning and purpose. I will always support this minority.
Nick_A
Posts: 6208
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Nick_A »

AMod wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:22 am Nick_A,
Nick_A wrote: The question of Secular Intolerance and its effects on the young attracted to the human need to experience something greater than itself has run its course. What was concluded? We cannot say nothing. This implies it doesn’t really matter. Tell this to suffering kids.
So you said umpteen times.

Nothing new was being said and as such I thought it had run its course.
For these people the topic will never run its course. ...
If they come here they will find differently.

Please stop bothering me as I still remember that you left here with the intention of bad-mouthing us upon other forums and yet have the gall to come back after you've been banned upon those forums. You're lucky I'm not as intolerant as you would be if you had the power.

AMod.
I was banned by Greta. That is a badge of honor. When I was here last the site was run by a clique damaging the value of philosophy. The other site had the goals more respectful to philosophy. Since then it has changed and the clique no longer exists while the other site is going down hill. If you were responsible for dissolving the dominant clique, I applaud your efforts.
AMod
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:32 pm

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by AMod »

Nick_A,

You live in a delusional fantasy of your own making.

You really need to stop bothering me with it.

AMod.
User avatar
Greta
Posts: 4389
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Greta »

Nick_A wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:13 amResisting secular intolerance is annoying to secularists ...
If you resisted with logic without all the solipsism, judgmentalism and self-entitled and self-important fury, that would not be annoying.

You think you are on a grand crusade against the Great Beast. In truth, you are a little troll man being unpleasant to a few randoms online.
Nick_A
Posts: 6208
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Nick_A »

Greta wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:50 am
Nick_A wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:13 amResisting secular intolerance is annoying to secularists ...
If you resisted with logic without all the solipsism, judgmentalism and self-entitled and self-important fury, that would not be annoying.

You think you are on a grand crusade against the Great Beast. In truth, you are a little troll man being unpleasant to a few randoms online.
I do resist with logic which is why it is annoying. If I were a flaming fundamentalist then you could get your kicks from feeling superior. But when I include my “cast of characters,” huffing and puffing does no good. Secular intolerance doesn’t work against them.

Where is this fury? I’ve learned by experience that you exist which eliminates solipsism. What did I write I am entitled to?

When you get on a roll you just throw random words around. I bet you call that logic. Progressive education no doubt.
User avatar
Greta
Posts: 4389
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by Greta »

Nick_A wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:21 amI do resist with logic which is why it is annoying.
I wish you did use logic.
marjoram_blues
Posts: 1629
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: Einstein and the Cosmic Man

Post by marjoram_blues »

Greta wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:27 am
Nick_A wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:21 amI do resist with logic which is why it is annoying.
I wish you did use logic.
Perhaps the difficulty here is that a delusional disorder with a chronically persistent idea, or conviction, CAN be logically constructed and internally consistent.
Any attempt to contradict the belief results in hostility and may increase the level of tenacity.
The concern of others is not appreciated. Indeed, the very opposite.
Not amenable to reason, perhaps the question needs to be asked whether we are helping or harming the individual concerned.
I did not enjoy my emotional response in a previous thread, nor calling him an idiot for continuing in his quest. However, his determination to continue in a similar vein in any and all threads is disturbing.
I am not sure that encouraging more of the same is helpful to anyone concerned.
That is why I hope that a decision is taken to limit this output.

This post is not an example of impatient intolerance based on any religious attitude - just a particular point of view; correct or incorrect. Take it for what it is and not what is delusionally imagined.
Post Reply