Against Caffeine

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Gloominary
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Against Caffeine

Post by Gloominary » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:10 pm

Caffeine makes people more anxious, nervous, paranoid, erratic, impulsive, irritable, reckless and restless.
In small does, say a few cups of coffee, depending on the person, it makes people a little more like this, in large doses, say half a dozen-dozen, it makes people a lot more like this.
I'm sure a lot of mental disorders that haven't been attributed to caffeine can be caused or exacerbated by it, from ADD and ADHD to various anxiety disorders such as OCD and phobias, from bipolar to intermittent explosive disorder.
People who're going through major bouts of anger, anxiety and so on, are obviously significantly more likely to cause an accident or experience road rage.
I don't know why the word drunkenness only applies to people who've consumed too much alcohol, it should apply to people who've consumed caffeine in excess.
People under the influence of caffeine shouldn't be operating heavy machinery.
Police should breathalyze and piss test for coffee.

I don't need to see a single study to draw these conclusions, all-most of the studies are probably rigged by the coffee companies anyway.
Coffee is the number two commodity in the world right behind oil.
When the siren sings, the nations dance madly to her song.
It's called an inference and it's obvious: we know coffee causes said symptoms or makes said symptoms worse, and we know people who're more angry, anxious and so on will make poorer decisions on the road and elsewhere.

In addition to these problems, caffeine is a poison, that's why cats and dogs die after ingesting it.
It's produced by the plant to protect the bean or seed from consumption, it also tastes like shit to anyone who's taste buds haven't been warped by its habitual consumption or the consumption of other such toxic substances.
It damages the stomach and cardio vascular system, but its carnage is cumulative, which's one reason why the damage has been downplayed by the mainstream medical community, among others, but not some parts of the alternative medical community, who're able and willing to see it for what it is.

Sometimes I ask myself who's cultivating who?
Do we have it, or does the coffee bean have us?
Has it duped us into helping it replicate itself?

Coffee's impact on us isn't just medical, individual, but philosophical, collective.
Since almost everyone consumes it, and since it affects people similarly, you could say that it possesses a like personality or spirit of its own, and we're all becoming more alike by invoking it, tapping and tuning into the same psychic frequency.
Just like meth and crack addicts instantly recognize each other and their addiction by the way they walk and talk on the street, coffee addicts are able to recognize each other in this way too, albeit subconsciously.
They often adopt similar attitudes, outlooks and life patterns.

Coffee was first brought over to the west by the Arabs in the late medieval era.
It was administered to monks to keep them from falling asleep during the recital of their many prayers (they had to recite hundreds of prayers a day).
In other words: it keeps the hamsters spinning on the wheel.
Shortly thereafter it made its way to the European Aristocracy, and by the 18th century the middle classes.

How many people wouldn't take that overtime, or that trip to Hawaii or Vegas if it weren't for coffee?
They might've just stayed home, and went for a stroll in the park.
Coffee and consumer capitalism go hand in hand I'm sure.
Coffee is an essential, indispensable component of our zeitgeist.
Therefore, to oppose it is to oppose what it helps sustain: this unsustainable system with its delusion of endless economic growth.

The state of mind of the coffee drunkard is the state of someone who's poisoned, who's body and mind are fighting for their life: fight/flight.
Why would mankind willingly induce such a state?
Is it part of our collective death drive, our will to extinction?
When just about any other species takes care of its needs, it rests, why're we the exception to the rule?
What collective neurosis compels us to bite the hand that feeds, to destroy that which we depend on?

I ask you to imagine what would happen if coffee was banned overnight, or many-most of us just willingly gave it up, without replacing it with similar stimulants?
Could the system continue as is unimpeded?
I seriously doubt it.
If coffee can't or shouldn't be banned, than at least we need to become more conscious of its myriad negative effects.
It needs to be treated as a serious drug, which it is, like alcohol and tobacco, it requires regulation and shouldn't be given to children.
Last edited by Gloominary on Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PauloL
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by PauloL » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:23 pm

1. What's the philosophical relevance of this?

2. So many nonsense claims need (credible) references.

3. Leave coffee alone, and especially people who drink it. Why don't you joint anti-tobacco? Want to be different? Try anti-pipe.

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PauloL
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by PauloL » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:31 pm

When coffee was introduced in Europe in 16th century, many advisors of Pope Clement VIII clamored for the Pope to ban the controversial drink as they said it was devil's drink. The Pope said no before trying it himself.

The Pope was brought a steaming mug of java and he took a sip. According to legend, he declared, “This Satan’s drink is so delicious that it would be a pity to let the infidels have exclusive use of it.”

Now there are people wanting to give Pope's advisors a second try.

thedoc
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by thedoc » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:52 pm

Gloominary wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:10 pm
Caffeine makes people more
Coffee effects different people differently. One size does not fit all.

I used to have my last cup of coffee right before I went to bed and didn't have trouble sleeping.
Coffee keeps me regular, without it I get constipated.

Most of your rant is just anti-coffee rhetoric and doesn't mean anything.

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PauloL
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by PauloL » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:03 am

That's it. I'll make a cup of Illy coffee right now.

Satan's drink prevents Diabetes, Alzheimer, and Parkinson.

It also helps poor countries producing it.

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Greta
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by Greta » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:26 am

As Nagle famously made clear, we cannot know what it's like to be another so guessing how any given drug will effect an individual is unreliable.

So it's best for individuals to decide for themselves what works best with their own minds and bodies. The issue with drugs is that we tend to be very visual beings and chemicals seem counter intuitive to us. For example, set alight a white powder like flour and you get a flame, set alight a similar looking white powder, mercury thiocyanate and you get the famous "Pharaoh's serpent" reaction, or mix two colourless liquids and you may get nothing, an explosion, brilliant colours, vapour or congealing. Chemistry is a black box to us humans, with only our relatively dull noses and tongues to guide us, hence another need for science and the scientific method.

Given the odd relationship people have with chemistry and how little is known about the different ways individuals respond to different chemicals, it would be wisest to trust people's intuition and focus on educating people MUCH more about their bodies so they can make informed dosage decisions once they have found a helpful poison.

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:31 am

You're correct to say that caffeine can worsen many mental pathologist, but it can also improve many of them. This really just needs to be at the leisure of the person to decide, because I've even heard some people with anxiety disorders say it helps them, especially those with social anxiety. Likewise, stress levels and migraines are commonly elevated by caffeine.

The truth is, caffeine is one of the most harmless and safest drugs to the known world. Even some of the claims of the fear mongers complaining about energy drink are pretty unfounded. The LD50 of caffeine is so incredibly high, the only risk it really poses is if you have a predisposed condition like HBP, liver issues, or low blood sugar. It has serious interactions with very few medications as well.

Dubious
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by Dubious » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:46 am

To slightly paraphrase Nietzsche, life without coffee ain't worth living. If it's the Devil's drink, why did god create coffee beans?

thedoc
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by thedoc » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:47 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:31 am
You're correct to say that caffeine can worsen many mental pathologist, but it can also improve many of them. This really just needs to be at the leisure of the person to decide, because I've even heard some people with anxiety disorders say it helps them, especially those with social anxiety. Likewise, stress levels and migraines are commonly elevated by caffeine.

The truth is, caffeine is one of the most harmless and safest drugs to the known world. Even some of the claims of the fear mongers complaining about energy drink are pretty unfounded. The LD50 of caffeine is so incredibly high, the only risk it really poses is if you have a predisposed condition like HBP, liver issues, or low blood sugar. It has serious interactions with very few medications as well.
I had just the opposite effect, Sanka decaffeinated coffee used to give me the most intense migraine headaches. I stopped drinking decaffeinated coffee altogether and I haven't had a problem since.

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:12 am

Your idea that people shouldn't be allowed to drive after having caffeine is especially mental. You seem to be under the impression that anyone under any psychoactive drug isn't allowed to drive, but that's not necessarily true. People are usually charged with a DUI under an intoxicating drug, provided that it did or plausibly could result in an accident. Right before my grandfather died, he would drive under high doses of morphine, and the doctor told him it would be just fine. Outside of alcohol, marijuana in some states, and illegal narcotics there's no set limit for what you're allowed to drive under the influence of. Because it's not usually a problem unless you make it one.
Gloominary wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:10 pm
Just like meth and crack addicts instantly recognize each other and their addiction by the way they walk and talk on the street, coffee addicts are able to recognize each other in this way too, albeit subconsciously.
They often adopt similar attitudes, outlooks and life patterns.
It's no where near the same culture or attitude. While caffeine is actually addicting and someone can develop a dependence on the substance, the withdrawal symptoms are far and away from meth or cocaine, and very no one lives for caffeine. Meth withdrawals can actually kill you.

I was curious, do you happen to be Mormon?

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:18 am

thedoc wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:47 am
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:31 am
You're correct to say that caffeine can worsen many mental pathologist, but it can also improve many of them. This really just needs to be at the leisure of the person to decide, because I've even heard some people with anxiety disorders say it helps them, especially those with social anxiety. Likewise, stress levels and migraines are commonly elevated by caffeine.

The truth is, caffeine is one of the most harmless and safest drugs to the known world. Even some of the claims of the fear mongers complaining about energy drink are pretty unfounded. The LD50 of caffeine is so incredibly high, the only risk it really poses is if you have a predisposed condition like HBP, liver issues, or low blood sugar. It has serious interactions with very few medications as well.
I had just the opposite effect, Sanka decaffeinated coffee used to give me the most intense migraine headaches. I stopped drinking decaffeinated coffee altogether and I haven't had a problem since.
If you're replacing regular coffee with the decaff, you could just be getting a migraine from withdrawal of caffeine. If I suddenly stop or switch over to decaff from daily coffee use, I get migraines as well.

thedoc
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by thedoc » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:32 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:18 am
thedoc wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:47 am
I had just the opposite effect, Sanka decaffeinated coffee used to give me the most intense migraine headaches. I stopped drinking decaffeinated coffee altogether and I haven't had a problem since.
If you're replacing regular coffee with the decaff, you could just be getting a migraine from withdrawal of caffeine. If I suddenly stop or switch over to decaff from daily coffee use, I get migraines as well.
It wasn't withdraw, I did some testing to be sure, there was something in the Sanka decaffeinated that caused it, I have given up coffee completely and didn't have a reaction.

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PauloL
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by PauloL » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:39 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:31 am
[...] predisposed condition like HBP, liver issues, or low blood sugar.
What are you talking about? HBP? Liver? What's the effects??

If caffeine has any effect on blood sugar, it will raise it.

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PauloL
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by PauloL » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:47 am

thedoc wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:52 pm
Most of your rant is just anti-coffee rhetoric and doesn't mean anything.
x......................................................................................................................x





.......... True.





x......................................................................................................................x

Gloominary
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Re: Against Caffeine

Post by Gloominary » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:50 pm

PauloL wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:31 pm
When coffee was introduced in Europe in 16th century, many advisors of Pope Clement VIII clamored for the Pope to ban the controversial drink as they said it was devil's drink. The Pope said no before trying it himself.

The Pope was brought a steaming mug of java and he took a sip. According to legend, he declared, “This Satan’s drink is so delicious that it would be a pity to let the infidels have exclusive use of it.”

Now there are people wanting to give Pope's advisors a second try.
:lol:

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