Important notice to everyone

[Dubious]

I am actually doing fine just now. I have my good moods/feelings back to me again. But in the event that I lose them again, then I would try all I can to recover them. But if I cannot fully or sufficiently recover them within the reasonable time frame of 1-2 years, then I am done living. I am out of this life.

Ever think of listening to Mozart, the real one, as in this deep, beautiful, profound piece...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHWnFJ4_61U

[Sir-Sister-of-Suck]

The higher, humanistic standard of perceptual good value/worth would, in fact, be pleasure (good moods/feelings) and pain (bad moods/feelings). The mechanistic standard simply means a no quality standard that would give no real perceptual quality of good value/worth to a person's life. Now, continuing on here.

Okay, so I think I misread what you were trying to say.

I wish to share to you and others my hypothesis/philosophy. It is something based upon my own personal and profound experiences. However, it will also need some explaining to clarify some things. There could be a way to discover evidence for it if there really is evidence out there for it. But I am not sure how that could be done. So, I will now go ahead and present to you my hypothesis/philosophy and the explanation along with it. I don't care if others think it is complete nonsense. It is just my own personal conviction and I just wish to share it to you and others to gve you, others, my therapist, etc. insight into who I am, how I think, and what my values are. Although, I would highly recommend reading the whole explanation since it gives more insight. If you don't have time to, then just read my hypothesis/philosophy:

I think I've given you enough time already, with everything I've read from your other thread, which you then edited and reposted in several subsequent threads without even responding to any of the posts there. Don't take it the wrong way, but this is more fit for a blog post than a forum discussion. Most of what you wrote isn't even relevant to the specific thing I asked you to clarify on.

Hypothesis/Philosophy: Our good moods/feelings (which I define as the states of well being induced by the various feel-good neurotransmitters/chemicals in the brain) are the only things that can give our lives a real perceptual quality (experience) of good value, worth, joy, beauty, love, inspiration, and happiness. A person cannot become perceptually aware of these qualities without his/her good moods/feelings since, again, our good moods/feelings are the perceptual awareness of these qualities.

I'm more aware of where you stand now the more I've thought about it; But speaking of it in terms of objective morality, what do you think separates our 'good' feelings from other things people consider good, philosophically speaking? I'm aware of why they are different, but what makes good moods objectively more important, within your hedonistic argument?

[MozartLink]

I am going to express what's on my mind in regards to how I see a depressed life. I will present it in the form of a hypothesis/philosophy as well as a brief explanation:

Hypothesis/Philosophy: Our good moods/feelings (which I define as the states of well being induced by the various feel-good neurotransmitters/chemicals in the brain) are the only things that can give our lives a real perceptual quality (experience) of good value, worth, joy, beauty, love, inspiration, and happiness. A person cannot become perceptually aware of these qualities without his/her good moods/feelings since, again, our good moods/feelings are the perceptual awareness of these qualities. You could, in a way, consider our good moods/feelings to be a divine spiritual light to our lives, so to speak. This divine light engulfs us and puts us in a divine state of awareness where we become truly aware of all those aforementioned qualities.

But when this divine state of conscious awareness is taken away from us, we can no longer experience (become aware) of these qualities of good value, worth, joy, beauty, and happiness in our lives. Now, when I say that these good moods/feelings sustain this perceptual quality of good value/worth in our lives, this perceptual quality is not a thought/outlook at all. As I said before, thoughts/outlooks alone do not give us this perceptual quality in our lives. This means that our good moods/feelings do not have some sort of mind control effect where they force us to perceive through our thinking that our lives have good value/worth to us. Rather, the good moods/feelings themselves are an actual awareness of good value/worth in our lives. Like I said earlier, I metaphorically described it as some sort of divine transcended awareness. When I say awareness, I mean something like sight. Sight is the perceptual awareness of visualizing objects just as how our good moods/feelings are the perceptual awareness of good value/worth in our lives.

Brief Explanation: You see, I do not have these happy chemicals at all during my moments of traumatic induced misery/despair. Nothing I do can produce even the smallest amount of these happy chemicals. This is because my brain is in a completely traumatized state and, thus, all these chemicals are turned off. It is only once I reach a state of full recovery that these chemicals get turned back on, restoring my perceptual experience of good value, worth, joy, and beauty back into my life again. That is where my whole theory/philosophy was getting at. I was saying that it can only be the good moods/feelings (the happy chemical induced states of well being) that can give our lives the perceptual quality of good value/worth. But many people out there say you don't need these happy chemicals and that there are other ways to perceive your life as having good value/worth and happiness to you anyway. Like I said, I disagree with this perceptual standard of good value/worth and happiness. I think it is fake and doesn't give a person's life any real perceptual experience of good value/worth. I instead agree with the "divine light" standard I talked about above (i.e. the good mood/feeling standard).

Thinking and believing that you can see the good value/worth in your life is not the same thing as actually seeing it just as how a blind person thinking and believing he/she can see is not the same thing as actual sight. You need actual sight to see just as how you need your good moods/feelings to truly see the good value/worth in your life. Everything in my life is completely dead, miserable, the worst hell, and insignificant in these miserable states. I do not agree that this is simply a matter of value judgment on my part judging this miserable life as hell, lacking of good value/worth, etc. I truly think it is the feel-good chemicals being restored and my misery recovering that restores my perceptual experience of good value, worth, and happiness in my life just as how a blind person is able to recover and see again. There are, for example, people who have taken antidepressants which have completely wiped out these chemicals. They report that they are in a completely blank state as though a hard drive has been completely wiped clean. From there, friends, family, and others would just give the recommendation to this person that he/she can still perceive good value/worth in his/her life through making the best of things anyway and through judging his/her life as good/worthwhile to him/her anyway. I disagree with this. I think it is all a lie and that we truly need our good moods/feelings.

[Sir-Sister-of-Suck]

Responding to me asking why our good moods are the only things that matter with "Our good moods/feelings are the only things that can give our lives a real perceptual quality" is pretty much circular reasoning. The point is that good moods are good because 'people consider them good' and Pol Pot considered communism to be good. This can't be neurological measured in the same sense as good moods vs bad moods, where neurochemicals can be actually be measured, but the point is using your same standard to show how it's true for another thing. Just because this objection can't be fit into a bank to compare pleasure and suffering doesn't mean it's not a valid objection, it's a flaw in your argument.

Thinking and believing that you can see the good value/worth in your life is not the same thing as actually seeing it just as how a blind person thinking and believing he/she can see is not the same thing as actual sight.

The problem with your analogy is the qualification to something being ''good" is simply considering it good, and being blind has physical qualifications.

Unless you have an external reason why brain chemicals like dopamine and serotonin are objectively valuable over just personal beliefs that things are good, there's no real logical separation.

[MozartLink]

Responding to me asking why our good moods are the only things that matter with "Our good moods/feelings are the only things that can give our lives a real perceptual quality" is pretty much circular reasoning. The point is that good moods are good because 'people consider them good' and Pol Pot considered communism to be good. This can't be neurological measured in the same sense as good moods vs bad moods, where neurochemicals can be actually be measured, but the point is using your same standard to show how it's true for another thing. Just because this objection can't be fit into a bank to compare pleasure and suffering doesn't mean it's not a valid objection, it's a flaw in your argument.

Thinking and believing that you can see the good value/worth in your life is not the same thing as actually seeing it just as how a blind person thinking and believing he/she can see is not the same thing as actual sight.

The problem with your analogy is the qualification to something being ''good" is simply considering it good, and being blind has physical qualifications.

Unless you have an external reason why brain chemicals like dopamine and serotonin are objectively valuable over just personal beliefs that things are good, there's no real logical separation.

Now, when I say that these good moods/feelings sustain this perceptual quality of good value/worth in our lives, this perceptual quality is not a thought/outlook at all. As I said before, thoughts/outlooks alone do not give us this perceptual quality in our lives. This means that our good moods/feelings do not have some sort of mind control effect where they force us to perceive through our thinking that our lives have good value/worth to us. Rather, the good moods/feelings themselves are an actual awareness of good value/worth in our lives. Like I said earlier, I metaphorically described it as some sort of divine transcended awareness.

[Lacewing]

Rather, the good moods/feelings themselves are an actual awareness of good value/worth in our lives.

So you're saying that all of your angst over not having good moods/feelings has been about a lack of awareness? Isn't that what some people here have been telling you?

[MozartLink]

Rather, the good moods/feelings themselves are an actual awareness of good value/worth in our lives.

So you're saying that all of your angst over not having good moods/feelings has been about a lack of awareness? Isn't that what some people here have been telling you?

You misinterpret. When I say lack of awareness, I mean it is like a situation of a blind person having no sight. The form of awareness I am talking about is not insight/knowledge. Rather, it is an actual experience like sight.

[Lacewing]

You misinterpret. When I say lack of awareness, I mean it is like a situation of a blind person having no sight. The form of awareness I am talking about is not insight/knowledge. Rather, it is an actual experience like sight.

Okay, so it's a matter of being able/unable to see what's there?

[MozartLink]

You misinterpret. When I say lack of awareness, I mean it is like a situation of a blind person having no sight. The form of awareness I am talking about is not insight/knowledge. Rather, it is an actual experience like sight.

Okay, so it's a matter of being able/unable to see what's there?

Correct.

[Lacewing]

Okay, so it's a matter of being able/unable to see what's there?

Correct.

So you're not denying that the value/worth in one's life is already there to be seen.

[MozartLink]

Okay, so it's a matter of being able/unable to see what's there?

Correct.

So you're not denying that the value/worth in one's life is already there to be seen.

It's there to be seen, but cannot be seen without the good moods/feelings. As long as I cannot see that value, then that good value cannot matter to me. That good value cannot be of any good value to me.

[Lacewing]

It's there to be seen, but cannot be seen without the good moods/feelings.

Is the inability to see (and to have the good moods/feelings) beyond your ability to affect?

[Sir-Sister-of-Suck]

Now, when I say that these good moods/feelings sustain this perceptual quality of good value/worth in our lives, this perceptual quality is not a thought/outlook at all. As I said before, thoughts/outlooks alone do not give us this perceptual quality in our lives. This means that our good moods/feelings do not have some sort of mind control effect where they force us to perceive through our thinking that our lives have good value/worth to us. Rather, the good moods/feelings themselves are an actual awareness of good value/worth in our lives. Like I said earlier, I metaphorically described it as some sort of divine transcended awareness.

So good feelings and moods are not good because we perceive them to be good? Good feelings are just a way of telling us that certain things are good? Like how Pol Pot gets a good feeling about communism?

[MozartLink]

Now, when I say that these good moods/feelings sustain this perceptual quality of good value/worth in our lives, this perceptual quality is not a thought/outlook at all. As I said before, thoughts/outlooks alone do not give us this perceptual quality in our lives. This means that our good moods/feelings do not have some sort of mind control effect where they force us to perceive through our thinking that our lives have good value/worth to us. Rather, the good moods/feelings themselves are an actual awareness of good value/worth in our lives. Like I said earlier, I metaphorically described it as some sort of divine transcended awareness.

So good feelings and moods are not good because we perceive them to be good? Good feelings are just a way of telling us that certain things are good? Like how Pol Pot gets a good feeling about communism?

Exactly.

[Sir-Sister-of-Suck]

Now, when I say that these good moods/feelings sustain this perceptual quality of good value/worth in our lives, this perceptual quality is not a thought/outlook at all. As I said before, thoughts/outlooks alone do not give us this perceptual quality in our lives. This means that our good moods/feelings do not have some sort of mind control effect where they force us to perceive through our thinking that our lives have good value/worth to us. Rather, the good moods/feelings themselves are an actual awareness of good value/worth in our lives. Like I said earlier, I metaphorically described it as some sort of divine transcended awareness.

So good feelings and moods are not good because we perceive them to be good? Good feelings are just a way of telling us that certain things are good? Like how Pol Pot gets a good feeling about communism?

Exactly.

So communism is of good value/worth.