My Hedonistic Logical Argument

[MozartLink]

I have made a better and more brief logical argument.

1.) Perceiving something to be of good value, worth, joy, beauty, inspiration, love, a heavenly experience, and happiness to you can only be an experience for you that has a good quality. In short, having good value and worth, along with joy, beauty, and happiness in your life is always a good quality of experience (state of mind) no matter how you look at it. Even if you thought that a bad quality of experience was something good to you, then that would presuppose a good quality of experience.

2.) Perceiving something to be of bad value, torment, suffering, a hellish experience, and misery to you can only be an experience for you that has a bad quality. In short, having bad value, along with suffering, misery, and torment in your life is always a bad quality of experience (state of mind) no matter how you look at it. Even if you thought that a good quality of experience was something bad to you, then even that would presuppose a bad quality of experience.

3.) Perceiving something to be of neither good value, worth, bad value, joy, beauty, happiness, suffering, torment, or misery to you can only be an experience for you that has no quality. In short, having neither good value, worth, nor bad value, along with having no suffering, a hellish experience, a heavenly experience, misery, torment, happiness, or beauty in your life is always a neutral quality of experience (state of mind) no matter how you look at it. Even if you thought that a neutral quality of experience was something good or bad to you, then even that would presuppose a good or bad quality of experience.

4.) The quality of experience we have (i.e. good, bad, or neutral) is not a matter of value judgment. This is because qualities are distinct from value judgments. If you judged and believed that an orange was an apple, then that would not change the qualities that this orange has and somehow make it into an apple. Likewise, physical pain possessing a painful quality of experience is not a matter of value judgment either. Physical pain being a painful experience is what makes it physical pain in the first place just as how the qualities of an orange are what make it an orange.

In that same sense, the type of experience we have also dictates whether that experience has a good quality, bad quality, or no quality. As you can see here, it is all about the experiences we have and not about the terms we give to these experiences. It is the experiences that define the terms; not vice versa. We do not define what type of experience we have (i.e. painful, joyful, beautiful, hellish, etc.). Let me give you an example.

If someone was dying of thirst and he/she had an empty glass, then defining the emptiness inside that glass as being water would be nothing more than a term. It would not give this person the actual quality of water to save his/her life. Experience is everything to life. Without it, then we would either be dead or unconscious. A person's experience is very precious and should not be left out of the picture just as how the idea that this person needed an actual quality of water to save his/her life should not be left out of the picture.

5.) Our good moods/feelings (which I define as only being states of well being induced by our brain chemicals/neurotransmitters) are the only experiences that possess the good quality, our bad moods/feelings are the only experiences that possess the bad quality, and a non feeling experience can only possess no quality.

Therefore,

Conclusion: Our good moods/feelings are the only things that can give our lives a real perceptual quality of good value, worth, joy, beauty, a heavenly experience, and happiness, our bad moods/feelings are the only things that can give our lives a perceptual quality of bad value, suffering, misery, agony, a hellish experience, and torment, while it is only experiencing neither our good or bad moods/feelings that can bring our lives a perceptual quality of no value, worth, joy, beauty, suffering, heavenly experience, hellish experience, happiness, love, or misery.

People with a brain defect, brain damage, or low feel-good neurotransmitters that take away their good moods/feelings due to either drug use, depression, and/or anhedonia are only having positive thoughts that their lives still have good value, worth, joy, beauty, and happiness to them without their good moods/feelings. But their quality of experience possesses no good quality to give any real perception of good value, worth, joy, beauty, and happiness to their lives. In other words, they would not be able to actually see the good value, worth, joy, beauty, and happiness in themselves, others around them, and in their lives.

You might as well consider the value and joy to be nothing more than terms (words/phrases) in a depressed/anhedonic person's life. Depressed/anhedonic people are only fooling and deluding themselves through these positive terms as well as through positive gestures, acts, and tones of voice in thinking their lives have real good value and worth to them. But, again, their actual experience possesses no good quality. They might have a little bit of good moods/feelings to some small degree, but that would only offer them a small quality of perceptual good value/worth perceived in their lives.

Additional delusional factors include conditioning, strength of character, and empathy towards other human beings which would certainly delude an individual into thinking that helping out others, making the best of life, etc. during miserable times would give real good value, worth, and joy to a person's life with no need for any good moods/feelings.

[]...[]

.



Used waaaaaay too many fucking words. Always skeptical of someone who uses so many words in a medium that really isn't conducive to such.

Even so, I didn't see where you mentioned an estrangement from ones feelings would actually allow one to produce a self-conscious ecstacy. - Which would stand above your impish good/bad moods. FYI.


Perhaps a better title for this thread would be, My Flawed Logical Argument.

~ Bill Wiltrack ~

.

[MozartLink]

.



Used waaaaaay too many fucking words. Always skeptical of someone who uses so many words in a medium that really isn't conducive to such.

Even so, I didn't see where you mentioned an estrangement from ones feelings would actually allow one to produce a self-conscious ecstacy. - Which would stand above your impish good/bad moods. FYI.


Perhaps a better title for this thread would be, My Flawed Logical Argument.

~ Bill Wiltrack ~

.

People would say that there are other forms of ecstasy (good moods/feelings) that one could achieve besides the ones I have described earlier which were states of well being induced by the feel good chemicals. However, these other good moods/feelings do not exist. They are, again, nothing more than a mechanistic standard of a good mood/feeling and not any real good mood/feeling that meets the human standard.

[]...[]

.



You, realize that your last sentence makes absolutely no sense.


*Oh - shit! - Wait a minute...I forgot, this thread is actually titled, My Flawed Logical Argument.


Good one! - Carry on.


.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

.



Always skeptical of someone who uses so many words in a medium that really isn't conducive to such.


~ Bill Wiltrack ~

.

I would have thought the opposite to be the case. You only have to look at the huge 'blog' industry.

[Impenitent]

are chemically induced states of euphoria equally valued?

-Imp

[MozartLink]

.



You, realize that your last sentence makes absolutely no sense.


*Oh - shit! - Wait a minute...I forgot, this thread is actually titled, My Flawed Logical Argument.


Good one! - Carry on.


.

Refer to this recent topic I've made since it is my absolute best one. Once you read it all, it should all make perfect sense to you:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22491

[MozartLink]

I have made a better and more brief version of my logical argument. Go ahead and reread it in my opening post.

[Sir-Sister-of-Suck]

1.) Perceiving something to be of good value, worth, joy, beauty, inspiration, love, a heavenly experience, and happiness to you can only be an experience for you that has a good quality. In short, having good value and worth, along with joy, beauty, and happiness in your life is always a good quality of experience (state of mind) no matter how you look at it.

What people perceive to be good is not always merely neurological pleasure, though, as it seems you're getting at. People often have their own personal moral principles that they try to adhere to, usually thanks to religion. I think the main problem with John Stuart Mills (this seems to be a slight revision of that) line of argumentation for utilitarianism is it's over-simplicity to really capture the nuance of human psychology and explain why other things we consider to be 'good' are discounted. What people consider 'good' is not just what makes them happy.

Same goes for things we consider 'bad'. It's not just suffering.

People with a brain defect, brain damage, or low feel-good neurotransmitters due to either drug use, depression, and/or anhedonia are only having positive thoughts that their lives still have good value, worth, joy, beauty, and happiness to them without their good moods/feelings. But their quality of experience possesses no good quality to give any real perception of good value, worth, joy, beauty, and happiness to their lives. In other words, they would not be able to actually see the good value, worth, joy, beauty, and happiness in themselves, others around them, and in their lives.

I'm confused why you'd bring this up. What's more is that you seem to be saying that people who take euphoric drugs aren't experiencing valid forms of happiness. What is it that logically justifies this criteria?