Secular Intolerance

[Greta]

It is easy to see how Man became “them” (male and female) in Genesis ...

Yes, through evolution from other gender-delineated organisms.

Gender itself may well be a phase of nature, although duality must always present in any whole - inside/outside, left/right, top/bottom, order/chaos, relative homogeneity and diversity, etc.

[Nick_A]

It is easy to see how Man became “them” (male and female) in Genesis ...

Yes, through evolution from other gender-delineated organisms.

Gender itself may well be a phase of nature, although duality must always present in any whole - inside/outside, left/right, top/bottom, order/chaos, relative homogeneity and diversity, etc.

Man devolved rather than evolved into Them. Evolution is the return to wholeness. Devolution or involution is the process of fragmentation from wholeness into diversity

[Greta]

It is easy to see how Man became “them” (male and female) in Genesis ...

Yes, through evolution from other gender-delineated organisms.

Gender itself may well be a phase of nature, although duality must always present in any whole - inside/outside, left/right, top/bottom, order/chaos, relative homogeneity and diversity, etc.

Man devolved rather than evolved into Them. Evolution is the return to wholeness. Devolution or involution is the process of fragmentation from wholeness into diversity

The evidence suggests that all mammals, including humans, evolved from a small, underground dwelling animal somewhat like a shrew. Genders have obviously been present the whole time.

If you are just referring to exaggerated gender expression, it could be argued that the limited female role within patriarchies was a devolution compared with the more full utilisation of women's abilities by some indigenous peoples. Exaggeration of gender differences is frippery, a game played by a species with relatively few outside threats, who (naively) figure that they can afford to place inordinate focus on silly games. Basically it is hubris, a dynamic that history does not treat kindly.

[Nick_A]

Yes, through evolution from other gender-delineated organisms.

Gender itself may well be a phase of nature, although duality must always present in any whole - inside/outside, left/right, top/bottom, order/chaos, relative homogeneity and diversity, etc.

Man devolved rather than evolved into Them. Evolution is the return to wholeness. Devolution or involution is the process of fragmentation from wholeness into diversity

The evidence suggests that all mammals, including humans, evolved from a small, underground dwelling animal somewhat like a shrew. Genders have obviously been present the whole time.

If you are just referring to exaggerated gender expression, it could be argued that the limited female role within patriarchies was a devolution compared with the more full utilisation of women's abilities by some indigenous peoples. Exaggeration of gender differences is frippery, a game played by a species with relatively few outside threats, who (naively) figure that they can afford to place inordinate focus on silly games. Basically it is hubris, a dynamic that history does not treat kindly.

Organic life on earth is a living machine which eats itself and reproduces as it performs its collective function of transforming substances. Organic life as a whole began at a higher level of reality and then involved onto the earth serving a cosmic need where it evolves into a part of the machine serving its purpose. A tree, a clam, a fish, a dog etc. have all reached the limit of their evolution. They involute back into the earth as dust to dust and then the cycle begins again. Man as opposed to the rest of organic life on earth did not originate with the earth. The man animal did but the essence of Man, devolved from above. In this way Man is dual natured.

The authentic Ways initiating with a conscious source offer alternatives to dying like a dog. A person can live and die as an animal necessity or awaken to a conscious existence in addition to animal existence leading us back to our origin.That is our choice.

[Greta]

Man as opposed to the rest of organic life on earth did not originate with the earth. The man animal did but the essence of Man, devolved from above. In this way Man is dual natured.

The authentic Ways initiating with a conscious source offer alternatives to dying like a dog. A person can live and die as an animal necessity or awaken to a conscious existence in addition to animal existence leading us back to our origin.That is our choice.

I see the hierarchy in several levels - microbes came from the Earth, plants and animals grew from microbes, and humanity grew from animals. These are the great emergences of biology, so far.

What does it mean to awaken to a conscious existence? Basically to do what is peculiarly human, that other animals don't do as well, if at all, such as being aware of past and future and exerting self discipline in response to that awareness, altruism, humour beyond slapstick, showing mercy and so forth.

Are you seeing any further requirements?

[Belinda]

Nick_A quoted and wrote:

Matthew 10: 4 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
There will always be secular efforts within the world which seek to absorb God's people into the world of earthy attachments. Jesus brings a sword to separate animal love from divine love. They are both needed but when divine love is sacrificed for earthly attachments, it is a spirit killer.

Matthew 16: 24-26
Jesus also told you to take up your cross. To take up your cross is not the easy option of getting to God via mystical experiences. Taking up your cross is like having the energy to seek reality from your humble prison in the Cave, using your everyday talents of reason and human kindness.

[Nick_A]

Man as opposed to the rest of organic life on earth did not originate with the earth. The man animal did but the essence of Man, devolved from above. In this way Man is dual natured.

The authentic Ways initiating with a conscious source offer alternatives to dying like a dog. A person can live and die as an animal necessity or awaken to a conscious existence in addition to animal existence leading us back to our origin.That is our choice.

I see the hierarchy in several levels - microbes came from the Earth, plants and animals grew from microbes, and humanity grew from animals. These are the great emergences of biology, so far.

What does it mean to awaken to a conscious existence? Basically to do what is peculiarly human, that other animals don't do as well, if at all, such as being aware of past and future and exerting self discipline in response to that awareness, altruism, humour beyond slapstick, showing mercy and so forth.

Are you seeing any further requirements?

Yes. Conscience existence as opposed to reactive animal existence receives a quality of energy from above and gives to below. Conscious existence refers to a quality of a moment uniting above and below which is absent from reactive existence taking place below.

[Nick_A]

Nick_A quoted and wrote:

Matthew 10: 4 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
There will always be secular efforts within the world which seek to absorb God's people into the world of earthy attachments. Jesus brings a sword to separate animal love from divine love. They are both needed but when divine love is sacrificed for earthly attachments, it is a spirit killer.

Matthew 16: 24-26
Jesus also told you to take up your cross. To take up your cross is not the easy option of getting to God via mystical experiences. Taking up your cross is like having the energy to seek reality from your humble prison in the Cave, using your everyday talents of reason and human kindness.

Do you really think Jesus took up the cross to seek reality through his everyday talents of reason and human kindness? Is that really what is meant by taking up the cross?

[Greta]

Man as opposed to the rest of organic life on earth did not originate with the earth. The man animal did but the essence of Man, devolved from above. In this way Man is dual natured.

The authentic Ways initiating with a conscious source offer alternatives to dying like a dog. A person can live and die as an animal necessity or awaken to a conscious existence in addition to animal existence leading us back to our origin.That is our choice.

I see the hierarchy in several levels - microbes came from the Earth, plants and animals grew from microbes, and humanity grew from animals. These are the great emergences of biology, so far.

What does it mean to awaken to a conscious existence? Basically to do what is peculiarly human, that other animals don't do as well, if at all, such as being aware of past and future and exerting self discipline in response to that awareness, altruism, humour beyond slapstick, showing mercy and so forth.

Are you seeing any further requirements?

Yes. Conscience existence as opposed to reactive animal existence receives a quality of energy from above and gives to below. Conscious existence refers to a quality of a moment uniting above and below which is absent from reactive existence taking place below.

As described above, there's a lot of things regular people do that are positively and peculiarly human.

Anything beyond that would pertain to degrees of focus and attention, with an interest in trying to better understanding the nature of reality.

[Nick_A]

I see the hierarchy in several levels - microbes came from the Earth, plants and animals grew from microbes, and humanity grew from animals. These are the great emergences of biology, so far.

What does it mean to awaken to a conscious existence? Basically to do what is peculiarly human, that other animals don't do as well, if at all, such as being aware of past and future and exerting self discipline in response to that awareness, altruism, humour beyond slapstick, showing mercy and so forth.

Are you seeing any further requirements?

Yes. Conscience existence as opposed to reactive animal existence receives a quality of energy from above and gives to below. Conscious existence refers to a quality of a moment uniting above and below which is absent from reactive existence taking place below.

As described above, there's a lot of things regular people do that are positively and peculiarly human.

Anything beyond that would pertain to degrees of focus and attention, with an interest in trying to better understanding the nature of reality.

You re referring to one level of reality and I'm referring to uniting above and below: levels of reality.

[Arising_uk]

What does it mean to be better off? ...

Not dying at birth, not dying before six, not dying by your fifties, not dying because of a bad tooth, not dying because of a cut, not dying through drinking water, etc, etc.

... Can people really be better off under these conditions as human beings?

Yes.

[Belinda]

Nick_A wrote:

Do you really think Jesus took up the cross to seek reality through his everyday talents of reason and human kindness? Is that really what is meant by taking up the cross?

Jesus did not aim to be worshipped as a god. He said "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but God". For Christians, Jesus is the paradigm case of a man who lived according to reason and human kindness. Socrates is another similar case.

The cross is not glamorous in any way. It is a hard slog.

[Nick_A]

Nick_A wrote:

Do you really think Jesus took up the cross to seek reality through his everyday talents of reason and human kindness? Is that really what is meant by taking up the cross?

Jesus did not aim to be worshipped as a god. He said "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but God". For Christians, Jesus is the paradigm case of a man who lived according to reason and human kindness. Socrates is another similar case.

The cross is not glamorous in any way. It is a hard slog.

Do you really find it such a hard slog to be capable of reason and a little human kindness to the degree that it must be compared to the Crucifixion?

[Nick_A]

What does it mean to be better off? ...

Not dying at birth, not dying before six, not dying by your fifties, not dying because of a bad tooth, not dying because of a cut, not dying through drinking water, etc, etc.

... Can people really be better off under these conditions as human beings?

Yes.

What is the meaning of life for you. Is it just to avoid death as long as possible and be as comfortable as possible while contributing to society? I'm not being critical because it does seem to be the meaning of life for much of secularism. Are you different? What is the meaning of life for you?

[seeds]

Humans are part of nature. What humans are doing is what nature is doing. Nature tends to be underestimated. The Earth has produced humanity with perhaps more interesting things yet to come. Humans are just the most articulate expression of the Earth so far. Sixty million years ago it was the dinosaurs. Three hundred million years ago it was trilobites. Two billion years ago it was prokaryotes. Before that it was simply rock.

Yes, and before that there was (and still is) an informationally-based, “mind-like” substance (the quantum underpinning of reality) that is capable of being shaped into absolutely anything “imaginable.”

From whence did this infinitely malleable substance come?

Furthermore, it is a substance that appears to have been “impregnated,” not only with an inherent teleological impetus to bring us into existence as the culminating apex to the successive entities you mentioned (from rock to prokaryotes to trilobites to dinosaurs to humans), but also with every possible ingredient and means to complete the task.

Seems a lot to ask of “nature,” which is basically just an anthropomorphic rendering of the word “chance” dressed up in a mother's apron.

It does seem a lot to ask of nature, which is why what you wrote above isn't true.

I fully acknowledge and accept the fact that everything I say could be total nonsense.

Nevertheless, I still must ask you what is it that “isn’t true” in regards to the suggestions I offered?
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