If there is no free will, should we show sympathy for evil doers?

MozartLink · Post by **MozartLink** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:19 pm

If we truly have no free will, then that means criminals and psychopaths who do horrible deeds are doing these deeds with no choice on their part. Their brains made them do it. Therefore, should we feel sorry for them and show sympathy towards them knowing that they had no choice in the matter? Should we treat them with kindness, compassion, and respect since it was something that they had no choice in the matter? Take note that when I say the statement "should we show free will," I am not implying free will on your part or anyone else's here.

When the brain is presented with enough information, it is possible a change can take place. So by telling a criminal over and over again that what he/she is doing is wrong, then it might be possible to get through to him/her. He/she might change. Or he/she might not. It all depends on the capacities, configuration, etc. his/her brain has. So if he/she absolutely cannot change, then that is no choice on his/her part. So I would then tell you over and over again that you should show sympathy towards this criminal since he/she could not change. If that information gets through to you and changes you, then that is good. But if it doesn't, then there is nothing that can be done about that then.

henry quirk · Post by **henry quirk** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:30 pm

If their brains made them do the crime, then mine makes me want to make them do the time.

Without a free will, I'm just as much a robot as the criminal...if they have no say in doin' bad, then I have no say in wanting to punish them.

MozartLink · Post by **MozartLink** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:49 pm

henry quirk wrote:If their brains made them do the crime, then mine makes me want to make them do the time.

Without a free will, I'm just as much a robot as the criminal...if they have no say in doin' bad, then I have no say in wanting to punish them.

But when the brain is presented with enough information, there is the possibility that a change can take place though. So by telling you over and over again that you should feel sympathy towards these evil doers, then chances are that information might get through to you and change your attitude and cause you to show sympathy. Or maybe not. It all depends on the capacities, configuration, etc. your brain has.

henry quirk · Post by **henry quirk** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:55 pm

If that's the case, then bombard the (potential) evil doer with 'stealing is wrong, killing is wrong, hurting folks is wrong' messages.

Why wait till after the evil is done? 'Retrain' the criminal before the crime then you won't have to worry about my blood thirst.

MozartLink · Post by **MozartLink** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:59 pm

henry quirk wrote:If that's the case, then bombard the (potential) evil doer with 'stealing is wrong, killing is wrong, hurting folks is wrong' messages.

Why wait till after the evil is done? 'Retrain' the criminal before the crime then you won't have to worry about my blood thirst.

Yes, I agree. But if the criminal absolutely cannot change no matter what due to the fact that his/her brain lacks the capacity to do so, then where I am getting at here is that I would tell you to now show sympathy towards this criminal since he/she couldn't change and that it was no choice on his/her part. If the information gets through to you and you are the one who changes and shows sympathy, then that is good. But if you don't, then that is just the way it is then.

henry quirk · Post by **henry quirk** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:07 pm

"I would tell you to now show sympathy towards this criminal"

If there is no free will, if the criminal is merely a 'broken toaster', I'll treat the criminal as I would any broken appliance: I'll toss him out (cuz, being a toaster myself, I have no choice in the matter).

It's telling you begin this thread proposing the person who's done no wrong should be sympathetic to the person who has instead of proposing we work to change the brain of the potential wrongdoer first.

MozartLink · Post by **MozartLink** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:11 pm

henry quirk wrote:"I would tell you to now show sympathy towards this criminal"

If there is no free will, if the criminal is merely a 'broken toaster', I'll treat the criminal as I would any broken appliance: I'll toss him out (cuz, being a toaster myself, I have no choice in the matter).

It's telling you begin this thread proposing the person who's done no wrong should be sympathetic to the person who has instead of proposing we work to change the brain of the potential wrongdoer first.

But the question is, if this criminal is truly a hopeless case who cannot change, then are you sure that no amount of information can change your attitude so that you show sympathy towards this criminal in the process of "tossing him/her" out?

henry quirk · Post by **henry quirk** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:16 pm

No, the question is: why should I show any sympathy to the criminal (broken toaster or free agent)?

Why am I obligated to extend sympathy?

I mind my own business, Joe steals candy from babies, and I'm the one who has to make an effort to 'understand', while Joe, poor broken toaster that he is, gets a pass.

Does this seem sensible to you?

MozartLink · Post by **MozartLink** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:23 pm

henry quirk wrote:No, the question is: why should I show any sympathy to the criminal (broken toaster or free agent)?

Why am I obligated to extend sympathy?

I mind my own business, Joe steals candy from babies, and I'm the one who has to make an effort to 'understand', while Joe, poor broken toaster that he is, gets a pass.

Does this seem sensible to you?

I am not saying let the criminal roam free and allow him/her to commit his/her crimes. I am merely saying that you are obligated to show sympathy since he/she had no choice in the matter. He/she couldn't change and it was no choice on his/her part.

henry quirk · Post by **henry quirk** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:31 pm

So, I, a bio-robot with no free will, must accommodate another bio-robot with no free will who is incapable of accommodating me.

Seems awfully lopsided to me.

MozartLink · Post by **MozartLink** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:35 pm

henry quirk wrote:So, I, a bio-robot with no free will, must accommodate another bio-robot with no free will who is incapable of accommodating me.

Seems awfully lopsided to me.

All this is would be compassion. It would be saying:

"That guy is a broken toaster who cannot change. It was no choice on his/her part. I feel sorry for him/her and I have compassion for him/her even if he/she has done horrible deeds to me and others."

henry quirk · Post by **henry quirk** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:38 pm

Which brings us full circle...

If their brains made them do the crime, then mine makes me want to make them do the time.

Without a free will, I'm just as much a robot as the criminal...if they have no say in doin' bad, then I have no say in wanting to punish them.

MozartLink · Post by **MozartLink** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:43 pm

henry quirk wrote:Which brings us full circle...

If their brains made them do the crime, then mine makes me want to make them do the time.

Without a free will, I'm just as much a robot as the criminal...if they have no say in doin' bad, then I have no say in wanting to punish them.

Again, if me telling you to show compassion towards this criminal who cannot change is information that gets through to your brain and allows you to show compassion, then that is good. But if it doesn't and you are the one who can't change either, then you are the broken toaster just like that criminal who couldn't change. There is just nothing else that can be done to change either of you then.

Impenitent · Post by **Impenitent** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:29 pm

Henry is right, if there is no free will you don't have a choice what you show.

-Imp

MozartLink · Post by **MozartLink** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:55 pm

Impenitent wrote:Henry is right, if there is no free will you don't have a choice what you show.

-Imp

I already know that. But this point you made was not the discussion I was having.

Philosophy Now Forum

If there is no free will, should we show sympathy for evil doers?

If there is no free will, should we show sympathy for evil doers?

Re:

Re:

Re:

Re:

Re:

Re:

Re: If there is no free will, should we show sympathy for evil doers?

Re: If there is no free will, should we show sympathy for evil doers?