is Humanity hopeless? (with Humans ignorance & stupidity)

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thedoc
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Re: is Humanity hopeless? (with Humans ignorance & stupidity)

Post by thedoc »

Greta wrote: I don't know why you are being so pushy and grumpy over something that seems trivial. Its not as though I'm running around castigating people for the use of "straw man". I believe in "live and let live". Do you? Or have I caught you on a bad day? The term has never been important to me and I'm sure I've occasionally said "straw man" unthinkingly over the years.

Interestingly, now that you have challenged me on "straw person" I feel a sense of resolve about using the term that was not there before. I doubt that I will unthinkingly use the gendered term "straw man" again as there will now always be a conscious element attached to the term for me. That's how the brain works - whatever we focus on is amplified in our minds.
I've noticed that as well and usually in the negative, in that what is lacking becomes important.

Yes I've been having a bad day since Sunday evening, but mostly it's the misuse of the language that bothers me. Any term that ends in "man" usually includes both genders already, so I don't see the need to change it to be Politically correct.

I can see where this whole thing goes back to the left wing liberals campaign that no child should experience failure and tried to convince teachers to eliminate the failing grade. To me this just brought children up with unrealistic expectations that they would never fail no matter what they tried, I agree that it is important to encourage children to try different things to find out what they can do best, but I do not agree that they should succeed at everything. Some things they just can't do well and should have a realistic understanding of the world.
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Greta
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Re: is Humanity hopeless? (with Humans ignorance & stupidity)

Post by Greta »

thedoc wrote:
Greta wrote: I don't know why you are being so pushy and grumpy over something that seems trivial. Its not as though I'm running around castigating people for the use of "straw man". I believe in "live and let live". Do you? Or have I caught you on a bad day? The term has never been important to me and I'm sure I've occasionally said "straw man" unthinkingly over the years.

Interestingly, now that you have challenged me on "straw person" I feel a sense of resolve about using the term that was not there before. I doubt that I will unthinkingly use the gendered term "straw man" again as there will now always be a conscious element attached to the term for me. That's how the brain works - whatever we focus on is amplified in our minds.
I've noticed that as well and usually in the negative, in that what is lacking becomes important.

Yes I've been having a bad day since Sunday evening, but mostly it's the misuse of the language that bothers me. Any term that ends in "man" usually includes both genders already, so I don't see the need to change it to be Politically correct.

I can see where this whole thing goes back to the left wing liberals campaign that no child should experience failure and tried to convince teachers to eliminate the failing grade. To me this just brought children up with unrealistic expectations that they would never fail no matter what they tried, I agree that it is important to encourage children to try different things to find out what they can do best, but I do not agree that they should succeed at everything. Some things they just can't do well and should have a realistic understanding of the world.
All I did was replace a gendered term with a gender-neutral one. The term is accepted in both formal and informal settings, although less common. It's not a "misuse" at all. You just don't like it. On what basis do you make the claim that it's incorrect and a misuse of language? Do you have references? A little Googling of academic websites finds, as expected, more "straw men" than "straw persons", but the latter's presence is still significant and undisputed.

Best to drop this and worry about your own language and concepts, which are also contestable.

Your extrapolation at the end was not connected or relevant to the discussion. I understand that you and many others feel empowered in today's political climate to express your hatred for liberals, feminists, abortionists, gays, lefties, Muslims and so forth at every opportunity. The Great Politically Incorrect Catharsis.

I find all this focus on hate to be rather ungrounded and dull. Where's the learning? The creativity? The inspiration? The humour? The lightness of being? Why adopt a mindset guaranteed to make you and others unhappy? If you are indeed a doctor then I suggest that you prescribe yourself some medical marijuana :)
Walker
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Re: is Humanity hopeless? (with Humans ignorance & stupidity)

Post by Walker »

Folks say Benjamins for C-notes.
So, say Bolger for strawmen.
Like a T-shirt that says, He’s with Bolger.
Avoids all the genderizing.

Louis C.K. - Wizard of Oz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D3AV8QEuOc
thedoc
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Re: is Humanity hopeless? (with Humans ignorance & stupidity)

Post by thedoc »

Greta wrote:
Your extrapolation at the end was not connected or relevant to the discussion. I understand that you and many others feel empowered in today's political climate to express your hatred for liberals, feminists, abortionists, gays, lefties, Muslims and so forth at every opportunity. The Great Politically Incorrect Catharsis.

I find all this focus on hate to be rather ungrounded and dull. Where's the learning? The creativity? The inspiration? The humour? The lightness of being? Why adopt a mindset guaranteed to make you and others unhappy? If you are indeed a doctor then I suggest that you prescribe yourself some medical marijuana :)
I agree, but you need to tell all those who want to destroy America, and I'm not buying the Bull Shit that America started it. There are countries and people that hate America and the freedoms that Americans have, when they stop hating America and fighting among themselves that spills over to others, America will leave them alone. Convince the rest of the world to settle it's differences peacefully and America won't need to be the policemen of the world. If other people would settle their differences among themselves without bothering everyone else we could leave them alone, but they want to export their hate to everyone and America has the right to defend itself from this aggression.

Actually I don't hate the others you mention, I just want them to help as many as they want, with their own money and let me help the others I deem needy with my money.

FYI, "thedoc" is something a few of my friends started calling me, many years ago.
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henry quirk
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"I find all this focus on hate to be rather ungrounded and dull."

Post by henry quirk »

Then take your complaint to the Left cuz that's where most of that hate is comin' from.
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Arising_uk
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Re: is Humanity hopeless? (with Humans ignorance & stupidity)

Post by Arising_uk »

thedoc wrote:... America will leave them alone. ...
:lol: Whilst they have oil or decide to run themselves under political systems you don't like. You have to be kidding right? No country has attacked you or declared war upon you but you have attacked countless ones and killed millions of civilians, get real.
Convince the rest of the world to settle it's differences peacefully and America won't need to be the policemen of the world. ...
You're not the policeman of the world, your actions are and always have been for what you see as your national interest, hence if Trump pulls back from being this 'policeman' you'll not give a shit as it's not about Law and Order. But more likely we'll be getting more death and destruction under Trump as he'll be working for his benefit not his country's.
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Greta
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Re: is Humanity hopeless? (with Humans ignorance & stupidity)

Post by Greta »

Henry, a few weeks ago you told a forum member who came out as an emerging transgender to "Eat drano pansy". That kind of bigotry and hatred surely is not left wing.

Also, sorry to break the news to you guys but the US is not the force for good that we once believed. I believed that the US was the hero almost all my life but it's brainwashing. Consider the bombings, wars, political interference, arming of militia etc that the US has been involved in. It makes clear that the US is just the latest empire, now fading, whose its atrocities and advances seem about equivalent to those of previous empires, with most differences seemingly facilitated by technology and general social trends.

China will also be just more empire, with their own atrocities and achievements. Like the US they will propagandise how they are the best and the greatest blah blah. Given how short the US's dynasty was, it's possible that China's period of leadership will be ever shorter. If the trend continues the world will become an especially unstable place.
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TSBU
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Post by TSBU »

Image
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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk »

"Henry, a few weeks ago you told a forum member who came out as an emerging transgender to "Eat drano pansy". That kind of bigotry and hatred surely is not left wing."

If you review that exchange you'll find he threw out the first insult, so -- yeah -- it is the Left, for the most part.

#

"Also, sorry to break the news to you guys but the US is not the force for good that we once believed."

Well, I certainly never claimed the U.S. was, or is, a force for good.

#

"the US is just the latest empire"

More like 'empire wanna be'. I'd prefer we (the U.S.) become less interventionist and more 'mind your own biz, keep your hands to yourself' (something Trump said he wants too). But, if non-interventionism isn't in our future then out-n-out empire buildin' should be. The third option (becoming a blip in some one else's [islamic, perhaps?] empire) is unacceptable.

#

"fading"

Mebbe...we'll see.
Last edited by henry quirk on Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk »

"You're not the policeman of the world"

You're right, we're not and we shouldn't be. But a whack of folks inside and outside the U.S. believe we are. We done propagandized ourselves into believing it, and have done just enough 'good' to get idiots in other places to believe it.

It's a crap situation and it ain't gettin' better any time soon.

#

"your actions are and always have been for what you see as your national interest"

Yep...just like any other nation, large or small, rich or poor.

#

"he'll be working for his benefit not his country's."

So what?

As I said elsewhere in-forum, my reason for voting for him was/is about being left alone (sumthin' Obama didn't do and Clinton wouldn't do) so if he and his do that (leave me be), then he can self-serve all he likes.
thedoc
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Re:

Post by thedoc »

TSBU wrote:Image
one thing that needs to be remembered is that George Carlin was not trying to be wise or smart, he was a comedian and entertainer, so if he could say something outrageous and funny, true or not, he was doing his job.
thedoc
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Re:

Post by thedoc »

henry quirk wrote:"You're not the policeman of the world"

You're right, we're not and we shouldn't be. But a whack of folks inside and outside the U.S. believe we are. We done propagandized ourselves into believing it, and have done just enough 'good' to get idiots in other places to believe it.
It's not a job that the US wanted, but other nations had problems that they couldn't settle and called the US to intervene, and then didn't like the way we helped. If other nations don't want the US there, keep your problems to yourself, stop spilling the violence outside your own borders, and don't ask the US to come in.
thedoc
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Re:

Post by thedoc »

henry quirk wrote: "fading"

Mebbe...we'll see.
That sounds like a really good idea, if everyone would just leave the US alone, the US could just fade away.
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Greta
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Re:

Post by Greta »

"Eat drano pansy" is not just an insult, it's hate speech. Basically, its a comment that only a complete and utter fuckwit could make. No offence meant :P

The right is definitely the side with the most hatred. It's not even close. The left has a fringe with equivalent hatred to the hard right, but most lefties take a "live and let live" approach and then maybe, if they feel like it, they'll pop off to the polling booth to vote.

By contrast, you can't keep most righties from voting with a steam train - they are almost all intense, and the vast majority have intense and reflexive hatreds of the usual right wing targets.

It's been found that right wingers have a more intense disgust response than lefties. The experiment involved showing people disgusting photos and measuring brain responses. The right are more prone to disgust, not just in terms of biology, but generally - hence the hatreds. It's all emotional and irrational - treating their physiological responses as policy drivers.
thedoc
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Re: Re:

Post by thedoc »

Greta wrote:"Eat drano pansy" is not just an insult, it's hate speech. Basically, its a comment that only a complete and utter fuckwit could make. No offence meant :P

The right is definitely the side with the most hatred. It's not even close. The left has a fringe with equivalent hatred to the hard right, but most lefties take a "live and let live" approach and then maybe, if they feel like it, they'll pop off to the polling booth to vote.

By contrast, you can't keep most righties from voting with a steam train - they are almost all intense, and the vast majority have intense and reflexive hatreds of the usual right wing targets.

It's been found that right wingers have a more intense disgust response than lefties. The experiment involved showing people disgusting photos and measuring brain responses. The right are more prone to disgust, not just in terms of biology, but generally - hence the hatreds. It's all emotional and irrational - treating their physiological responses as policy drivers.
I will assume that you would consider Hillary supporters as Leftists, and they are displaying a lot more hatred than any Trump supporter that I am aware of. Trump supporters are merely deplorable, they are not rioting and destroying others property and enticing violence against their opponents.

Leftists definitely do not live by the creed of "live and let live", most leftists believe that they know what is best for everyone, and try to force everyone else to live as they think they should.
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