I need to seriously talk about something

[MozartLink]

I mentioned many times before that I struggle with chronic 24/7 absence of pleasure as well as depression. Now here is where things get to me. They say that pleasure (our good moods) aren't all that important in life and that there is far greater meaning and joy one can have in their lives besides their good moods. They say pleasure is nothing more than some chemical feel-good sensation and that, for this very reason, it is nothing important and that there are far more meaningful and joyful things in life such as making the world a better place and other such moral obligations and moral duties.

But what these types of people fail to realize here are two things. I will explain the first. There is a big difference between the idea of something versus the experience of that said thing. I could say to you that physical pain is nothing bad at all and doesn't matter simply because it is nothing more than a chemical response in the brain. But if I were to take a saw and saw your arms and legs off, then imagine just how awful of an experience that would be for you.

As a matter of fact, I would actually consider this a form of mental health stigma against people who struggle with depression. They tell people to just deal with it simply because they think that depression is nothing more than some unpleasant chemical sensation in the brain. But little do they realize the actual experience of depression that this person is going through and just how awful and life-destroying this said experience is for him/her.

So you can see the difference here between the idea of something and the experience of it. So you could tell me all you want that my pleasure is nothing important at all, but little do you realize just how profound and great of an experience it is for me. In terms of the experience of pleasure, I wouldn't even describe it as pleasure because to do so would imply that it is nothing more than some pleasant sensation.

I would describe the experience as a completely divine magical sacred energy that fills my life with complete joy and meaning. No other experience in life ever compares to it. All other experiences in life are absolutely nothing in comparison. We are not talking pleasure here. We are talking an experience that is on a whole new plane of existence for me. So that is what my experience of my good moods are like for me. They are the very source of all joy and meaning in my life and are what give joy and meaning to everything else in my life.

Everything in this life alone is nothing more than like a dead zombie without a soul. It might have bright colors and many other things which I could compare to the bright colors and other details of nature and this universe. But it is all still nothing more than a lifeless zombie. But it is pleasure that is like a soul. It injects a soul into this lifeless zombie and makes it a living being full of joy and meaning. So what I am saying here is that life without pleasure is empty, devoid, and meaningless. We absolutely need pleasure to fill everything in our lives with joy and meaning.

The same concept also applies to depression. Depression is the opposite of my good moods. It is the absolute worst experience for me. But the thing I don't understand here is the whole notion of one still being able to have joy and meaning in their lives despite being depressed and/or anhedonic. They say that it is our way of thinking and not our depressed and good moods that dictate the bad and good meaning in our lives and I just don't see how this is.

Sure, the thoughts themselves are the words and phrases of joy and meaning. For example, if you were depressed, you could think to yourself that your life still has joy and meaning and these would be words and phrases you would be telling yourself. But words and phrases are nothing more than intellectual binary. In other words, the experience is nothing more than an intellectual mechanical experience. It does not possess the life-filling experience of our good moods which is an experience that goes beyond mere words.

Having meaning and joy in one's life is far more than mere words and phrases. It is instead the energy of our good moods that completely fills our lives with joy and meaning. So the good moods themselves are an intrinsic form of joy and meaning and are the only source of joy and meaning. They are the one and only things that give joy and meaning to everything else in life and make everything in our lives come alive to us including the relationship we have with our own families.

Now imagine right now that you are experiencing a very intense profound good mood such as profound love. You would be displaying profound expressions right now such as closing your eyes and being in a profound meditative state of mind. You might even sigh. Now imagine you are severely depressed now and can't feel any love or any other good mood. Now take those same expressions and express them. Can you see the difference? The expressions performed when you felt love feel like they were profoundly driven and they feel full of joy, life, and meaning. But the ones experienced while depressed now feel completely devoid, empty, lifeless, and meaningless. It's as though they were forced and nothing more.

So that is the difference here between the experience of our thoughts alone versus the experience of our good moods. Our thoughts alone do not offer us any joyful meaningful experience. It only offers the experience of the words and phrases of joy and meaning, but not any actual joy and meaning. It is our good moods that drive our expressions such as the one I just explained above. They are what give true joy and meaning to our lives and not the fake "artificial" binary form of joy and meaning which is nothing more than words and phrases that possesses no actual joy and meaning.

Thoughts alone are nothing more than a settled intellectual experience while our good moods are intense, powerful, and extremely profound experiences. So that is what makes the experience of our good moods so much better. As a matter of fact, it is the very reason why it is only our good moods that can give our lives joy, inspiration, and meaning. I will now also explain the 2nd concept which is in regards to how our brains evolved.

We as human beings along with many other animals have evolved the brain region known as the Nucleus Accumbens. It is the brain region responsible for our experience of pleasure (our good moods). It is the brain region that promotes our survival. It is what guides us and drives us. It is what fills our life with joy and meaning. We absolutely need to rely on it to give joy and meaning to our lives. I will explain more on this right now:

We see the behavoir of animals in the lab. When one gets their reward system (Nucleus Accumbens) stimulated, then this animal is filled with life and joy. It is very encouraged to pursue its goals and mates. But if this said animal were to then be depressed, then it is sluggish and gives up on its goals and mates. This clearly says here that it is our good moods that make our lives joyful and meaningful while it is depression that only serves to take away all joy and meaning in our lives. Our good moods encourage our survival while depression is what discourages our survival.

But we are all fooled into thinking otherwise. We all live in a pressured moral society that has us all brainwashed into thinking that it is instead our way of thinking alone that gives joy and meaning to our lives. This is all a complete nonsensical lie and only serves to prolong and maintain the mental health stigma we see today against depressed and anhedonic people in which they are all told to stop being selfish and just move on in life since there are other meaningful and joyful things in life.

This is clearly false. It is instead our health and well-being that gives joy and meaning to everything in our lives and not our way of thinking. Therefore, depressed people cannot have any joy or any meaning in their lives at all and they are only fooling themselves into thinking they can and do have it in their lives. I dare ask, has anyone bothered to even compare the experience of their thoughts versus their good moods rather than just giving into being brainwashed by our society? If they did and paid close attention to the sheer difference between the two experiences, I can guarantee that they would see the drastic difference here. They should see just how profound of an experience pleasure is and how the experience of our thoughts alone do not compare.

So with all of this being said, I am afraid I am going to have to give up on the relationship I have with my family, my goals and dreams, and this life because our good moods are all there is to drive our survival and give our lives joy and meaning. That does not make me selfish and nor does it make any other person who commits suicide selfish either. This is just biology we are talking here. It's just how our brains evolved and some people like me are simply able to see past the moral lie we are taught by society that our lives can somehow have joy and meaning while we are depressed and/or anhedonic.

The newly evolved thinking area of my brain cannot give my life any joy or meaning. It does not drive my survival and nor does it give my life any joy or meaning. It is only a intellectual and rational aspect of life and not any joyful meaningful aspect. The Nucleus Accumbens is what drives our survival and fills our lives with joy and meaning while the prefrontal cortex (the thinking area of our brains) only acts as a decision making and problem solving function no different than any other binary function of our brains such as sight, breathing, movement, hearing, etc.

[mickthinks]

Dear MozartLink, you are clearly a very intelligent guy, and I find much in what you write to agree with. I would normally take up one or two of the more important things I disagree with. But I think it is more important to say this.

You are clearly in urgent need of professional counselling for depression. Please don't allow yourself to believe that an intention to kill yourself is a healthy response to your feelings of despair. It isn't healthy, and there are people whose job and skill it is to get you back to a happier healthier state of mind. Please go and find them and ask them to listen to you. If you have had help before, then know that the problem has returned and you need help again. Please do it today. Please do it before you do anything else. Don't even stop to reply to this message.

Come back when you have been helped to feel better.

[Obvious Leo]

Dear MozartLink, you are clearly a very intelligent guy, and I find much in what you write to agree with. I would normally take up one or two of the more important things I disagree with. But I think it is more important to say this.

You are clearly in urgent need of professional counselling for depression. Please don't allow yourself to believe that an intention to kill yourself is a healthy response to your feelings of despair. It isn't healthy, and there are people whose job and skill it is to get you back to a happier healthier state of mind. Please go and find them and ask them to listen to you. If you have had help before, then know that the problem has returned and you need help again. Please do it today. Please do it before you do anything else. Don't even stop to reply to this message.

Come back when you have been helped to feel better.

I echo your thoughts, mick. Depressive illness is something which must be regarded with the utmost seriousness but it is treatable. There are professional people who specialise in this field and they CAN help you so I urge you to act immediately. Having suffered from this illness myself in the past I know very well how debilitating it can be but I also know that there is light at the end of this darkest of tunnels.

Take care my friend.

[Walker]

Hello Mozart.

Are you requesting advice of what action to take?

If you wish, I can carefully read your words again and then return them, filtered through me.

********

On second thought, I don't think I should participate.

I have not ever suffered from clinical depression.

I'm not familiar with the writings of mcthinks.

I have read ObviousLeo.

Based on that, I defer to their advice for you.

I do know that depression is nothing to take lightly, if depression is anything like despair.

[Dalek Prime]

I understand what anhedonia is, and have gone through stretches of it. But I realise from your posts in earlier threads that this has been a consistent state for you. Does absolutely nothing give you any respite or temporary joy? A movie or a good book? Some simple stuff? Because if you can find a moments respite everyday, you can make it to the next, and the next. And with a little help from medication and being able to discuss such matters, it may get a little easier. I'm not saying super, but manageable. And before you know it, you'll have reached a natural life cycle, and you'll get that peace you desire. Even the worst won't last forever. Allow that to be a solace. In the meantime, if you need to sleep a lot, do without guilt. Allow yourself whatever you need to get through the day to the next. Be selfish, and take care of your needs.

If you can take just one step, try one more, without thinking about the third. Then try for the third. That's how you get through life. I do read your posts, and am rooting for you.

[Greta]

I agree with others about getting checked out. If you are in pain, why endure when you can get help? It sounds like you've suffered enough.

[Skip]

.... We all live in a pressured moral society that has us all brainwashed into thinking that it is instead our way of thinking alone that gives joy and meaning to our lives. This is all a complete nonsensical lie and only serves to prolong and maintain the mental health stigma we see today against depressed and anhedonic people in which they are all told to stop being selfish and just move on in life since there are other meaningful and joyful things in life. ...

Here is the central problem with everything you write.
What makes you think this is so? Who are all these 'people' who tell you that pleasure doesn't matter? With whom are you arguing? Do you live in an extremely religious community?

The mass culture I witness in North America is quite the opposite. It's hedonistic; it derides - and is often openly hostile to - intellect; it values overeating and partying, sex, booze and self-indulgence; three-note songs with inane lyrics and heavy beat; games of chance and gladiatorial contests; the celebration of youth and beauty, of glamour and glitz. It doesn't seem at all interested in meaning or purpose, but is intensely preoccupied with victory and consumption - very primitive pleasures.

So, again, I have to wonder with whom you are having the internal dialogue that you transcribe for us.
Two chronic depressives of my acquaintance have an identified alter ego inside their heads. One has been given a name, the other is called simply "the critic". These are not voices, such as a schizophrenic might hear; they don't give instructions and warnings; they are a personification of the sufferer's own self-dislike (possibly an internalized parent figure; it could be a pastor) - the one who tells them they won't succeed, they're not handsome enough, not smart enough, not good enough; that everything they know is incorrect and everything they attempt is wrong.
This alter ego, or anti-ego, must be addressed directly and put in its place.

[duszek]

Our dreams often help us to figure out what to change in our lives in order to move on.

Do you have any dreams ?

[Skip]

Yes! A dream log is a very good idea. So is a daily mood chart.

[Hobbes' Choice]

I mentioned many times before that I struggle with chronic 24/7 absence of pleasure as well as depression. Now here is where things get to me. They say that pleasure (our good moods) aren't all that important in life and that there is far greater meaning and joy one can have in their lives besides their good moods. They say pleasure is nothing more than some chemical feel-good sensation and that, for this very reason, it is nothing important and that there are far more meaningful and joyful things in life such as making the world a better place and other such moral obligations and moral duties.

But what these types of people fail to realize here are two things. I will explain the first. There is a big difference between the idea of something versus the experience of that said thing. I could say to you that physical pain is nothing bad at all and doesn't matter simply because it is nothing more than a chemical response in the brain. But if I were to take a saw and saw your arms and legs off, then imagine just how awful of an experience that would be for you.

As a matter of fact, I would actually consider this a form of mental health stigma against people who struggle with depression. They tell people to just deal with it simply because they think that depression is nothing more than some unpleasant chemical sensation in the brain. But little do they realize the actual experience of depression that this person is going through and just how awful and life-destroying this said experience is for him/her.

So you can see the difference here between the idea of something and the experience of it. So you could tell me all you want that my pleasure is nothing important at all, but little do you realize just how profound and great of an experience it is for me. In terms of the experience of pleasure, I wouldn't even describe it as pleasure because to do so would imply that it is nothing more than some pleasant sensation.

I would describe the experience as a completely divine magical sacred energy that fills my life with complete joy and meaning. No other experience in life ever compares to it. All other experiences in life are absolutely nothing in comparison. We are not talking pleasure here. We are talking an experience that is on a whole new plane of existence for me. So that is what my experience of my good moods are like for me. They are the very source of all joy and meaning in my life and are what give joy and meaning to everything else in my life.

Everything in this life alone is nothing more than like a dead zombie without a soul. It might have bright colors and many other things which I could compare to the bright colors and other details of nature and this universe. But it is all still nothing more than a lifeless zombie. But it is pleasure that is like a soul. It injects a soul into this lifeless zombie and makes it a living being full of joy and meaning. So what I am saying here is that life without pleasure is empty, devoid, and meaningless. We absolutely need pleasure to fill everything in our lives with joy and meaning.

The same concept also applies to depression. Depression is the opposite of my good moods. It is the absolute worst experience for me. But the thing I don't understand here is the whole notion of one still being able to have joy and meaning in their lives despite being depressed and/or anhedonic. They say that it is our way of thinking and not our depressed and good moods that dictate the bad and good meaning in our lives and I just don't see how this is.

Sure, the thoughts themselves are the words and phrases of joy and meaning. For example, if you were depressed, you could think to yourself that your life still has joy and meaning and these would be words and phrases you would be telling yourself. But words and phrases are nothing more than intellectual binary. In other words, the experience is nothing more than an intellectual mechanical experience. It does not possess the life-filling experience of our good moods which is an experience that goes beyond mere words.

Having meaning and joy in one's life is far more than mere words and phrases. It is instead the energy of our good moods that completely fills our lives with joy and meaning. So the good moods themselves are an intrinsic form of joy and meaning and are the only source of joy and meaning. They are the one and only things that give joy and meaning to everything else in life and make everything in our lives come alive to us including the relationship we have with our own families.

Now imagine right now that you are experiencing a very intense profound good mood such as profound love. You would be displaying profound expressions right now such as closing your eyes and being in a profound meditative state of mind. You might even sigh. Now imagine you are severely depressed now and can't feel any love or any other good mood. Now take those same expressions and express them. Can you see the difference? The expressions performed when you felt love feel like they were profoundly driven and they feel full of joy, life, and meaning. But the ones experienced while depressed now feel completely devoid, empty, lifeless, and meaningless. It's as though they were forced and nothing more.

So that is the difference here between the experience of our thoughts alone versus the experience of our good moods. Our thoughts alone do not offer us any joyful meaningful experience. It only offers the experience of the words and phrases of joy and meaning, but not any actual joy and meaning. It is our good moods that drive our expressions such as the one I just explained above. They are what give true joy and meaning to our lives and not the fake "artificial" binary form of joy and meaning which is nothing more than words and phrases that possesses no actual joy and meaning.

Thoughts alone are nothing more than a settled intellectual experience while our good moods are intense, powerful, and extremely profound experiences. So that is what makes the experience of our good moods so much better. As a matter of fact, it is the very reason why it is only our good moods that can give our lives joy, inspiration, and meaning. I will now also explain the 2nd concept which is in regards to how our brains evolved.

We as human beings along with many other animals have evolved the brain region known as the Nucleus Accumbens. It is the brain region responsible for our experience of pleasure (our good moods). It is the brain region that promotes our survival. It is what guides us and drives us. It is what fills our life with joy and meaning. We absolutely need to rely on it to give joy and meaning to our lives. I will explain more on this right now:

We see the behavoir of animals in the lab. When one gets their reward system (Nucleus Accumbens) stimulated, then this animal is filled with life and joy. It is very encouraged to pursue its goals and mates. But if this said animal were to then be depressed, then it is sluggish and gives up on its goals and mates. This clearly says here that it is our good moods that make our lives joyful and meaningful while it is depression that only serves to take away all joy and meaning in our lives. Our good moods encourage our survival while depression is what discourages our survival.

But we are all fooled into thinking otherwise. We all live in a pressured moral society that has us all brainwashed into thinking that it is instead our way of thinking alone that gives joy and meaning to our lives. This is all a complete nonsensical lie and only serves to prolong and maintain the mental health stigma we see today against depressed and anhedonic people in which they are all told to stop being selfish and just move on in life since there are other meaningful and joyful things in life.

This is clearly false. It is instead our health and well-being that gives joy and meaning to everything in our lives and not our way of thinking. Therefore, depressed people cannot have any joy or any meaning in their lives at all and they are only fooling themselves into thinking they can and do have it in their lives. I dare ask, has anyone bothered to even compare the experience of their thoughts versus their good moods rather than just giving into being brainwashed by our society? If they did and paid close attention to the sheer difference between the two experiences, I can guarantee that they would see the drastic difference here. They should see just how profound of an experience pleasure is and how the experience of our thoughts alone do not compare.

So with all of this being said, I am afraid I am going to have to give up on the relationship I have with my family, my goals and dreams, and this life because our good moods are all there is to drive our survival and give our lives joy and meaning. That does not make me selfish and nor does it make any other person who commits suicide selfish either. This is just biology we are talking here. It's just how our brains evolved and some people like me are simply able to see past the moral lie we are taught by society that our lives can somehow have joy and meaning while we are depressed and/or anhedonic.

The newly evolved thinking area of my brain cannot give my life any joy or meaning. It does not drive my survival and nor does it give my life any joy or meaning. It is only a intellectual and rational aspect of life and not any joyful meaningful aspect. The Nucleus Accumbens is what drives our survival and fills our lives with joy and meaning while the prefrontal cortex (the thinking area of our brains) only acts as a decision making and problem solving function no different than any other binary function of our brains such as sight, breathing, movement, hearing, etc.

There is nothing you can do about your brain. You have the one you've got and can't change it. It's you, to live with yourself is to live with your brain.
I imagine it is winter where you are. Depression is to be expected. I am getting low from time to time, and small problems seem over blown.
Get a "day-light" lamp, and headphones. Slap on Beethoven's ninths at as much volume as you can take and shine that lamp.
Tell me if don't help.

[Dalek Prime]

Our dreams often help us to figure out what to change in our lives in order to move on.

Do you have any dreams ?

Yes. I've written about a particular dream here on the forum, that helped immensely after an attempted suicide. After that dream, I decided to ride life out to its natural conclusion. Well, that and the fact my brother killed himself.

[MozartLink]

Thanks for the feedback so far. I would like to talk about something here that is brief for others to address as well. I have been wondering about the non-hedonistic version of joy and meaning that a depressed and/or anhedonic person can have in their lives. I am very skeptical of it because I am really thinking here that our pleasure (good moods) are the only source of joy, inspiration, and meaning in one's life.

If a person is able to achieve the non-hedonistic version of joy and meaning in his/her life, then does it offer a whole new experience? In other words, does it offer an experience that is more than just words and phrases? For example, if a depressed person thought to his/herself that he/she still has joy and meaning in his/her life even without feeling any pleasure, then would it be an experience that says:

"Wow, this experience is far more than just words and phrases! I used to be a hedonist who thought that pleasure was the only profound joyful and meaningful experience in my life. But now that I have achieved this new version of joy and meaning in my life, it no longer feels like mere words and phrases like before. Before I could tell myself all I wanted that my life still has joy and meaning while depressed. But it was all nothing more than mere words and phrases at the time. But now, it is different. I am now experiencing a whole new mental state. It doesn't even feel like words and phrases anymore. It doesn't even feel like mere thoughts anymore. No longer is it just a mere intellectual experience. I am now experiencing a whole new mental state entirely. It is a whole new version of joy and meaning in my life now!"

So I am wondering here that if I can somehow achieve the non-hedonistic version of joy and meaning in my life, if this experience will, in fact, give my life joy and meaning. Or if this promised version of joy and meaning that others say I can have in my life is nothing more than words and phrases. If it's nothing more than just words and phrases (thoughts) with nothing more to them than that, then I would have to completely disagree that this is a form of joy and meaning a depressed and/or anhedonic person can have in his/her life.

To me, that would just be nothing more than the words and phrases of joy and meaning, but not any actual experience (perception) of joy and meaning. We have different mental states (perceptions). We have the perception of sight, hearing, thought, touch, etc. But we also have the perception known as pleasure. Pleasure is what allows a person to perceive joy and meaning in his/her life. It is no different than how sight and hearing are the only things that allow a person to perceive sound and visual things.

Now imagine if I told a blind and deaf person that they can still have sight and hearing in their lives just by thinking so. Or if I told a person paralyzed from a stroke that they can still move by thinking so or that a person who has no ability to taste food can still taste food just by thinking so. This would be nonsense. Therefore, this is what it is like to tell me that I, as a depressed and anhedonic individual, can still have joy and meaning in my life. Pleasure is an intrinsic naturally occurring source of joy and meaning and it does not come through our way of thinking alone at all just how sight, hearing, touch, smell, etc. also don't come through our way of thinking either. They are all different mental states from our thinking.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Thanks for the feedback so far. I would like to talk about something here that is brief for others to address as well. I have been wondering about the non-hedonistic version of joy and meaning that a depressed and/or anhedonic person can have in their lives. I am very skeptical of it because I am really thinking here that our pleasure (good moods) are the only source of joy, inspiration, and meaning in one's life.

If a person is able to achieve the non-hedonistic version of joy and meaning in his/her life, then does it offer a whole new experience? In other words, does it offer an experience that is more than just words and phrases? For example, if a depressed person thought to his/herself that he/she still has joy and meaning in his/her life even without feeling any pleasure, then would it be an experience that says:

"Wow, this experience is far more than just words and phrases! I used to be a hedonist who thought that pleasure was the only profound joyful and meaningful experience in my life. But now that I have achieved this new version of joy and meaning in my life, it no longer feels like mere words and phrases like before. Before I could tell myself all I wanted that my life still has joy and meaning while depressed. But it was all nothing more than mere words and phrases at the time. But now, it is different. I am now experiencing a whole new mental state. It doesn't even feel like words and phrases anymore. It doesn't even feel like mere thoughts anymore. No longer is it just a mere intellectual experience. I am now experiencing a whole new mental state entirely. It is a whole new version of joy and meaning in my life now!"

So I am wondering here that if I can somehow achieve the non-hedonistic version of joy and meaning in my life, if this experience will, in fact, give my life joy and meaning. Or if this promised version of joy and meaning that others say I can have in my life is nothing more than words and phrases. If it's nothing more than just words and phrases (thoughts) with nothing more to them than that, then I would have to completely disagree that this is a form of joy and meaning a depressed and/or anhedonic person can have in his/her life.

To me, that would just be nothing more than the words and phrases of joy and meaning, but not any actual experience (perception) of joy and meaning. We have different mental states (perceptions). We have the perception of sight, hearing, thought, touch, etc. But we also have the perception known as pleasure. Pleasure is what allows a person to perceive joy and meaning in his/her life. It is no different than how sight and hearing are the only things that allow a person to perceive sound and visual things.

Now imagine if I told a blind and deaf person that they can still have sight and hearing in their lives just by thinking so. Or if I told a person paralyzed from a stroke that they can still move by thinking so or that a person who has no ability to taste food can still taste food just by thinking so. This would be nonsense. Therefore, this is what it is like to tell me that I, as a depressed and anhedonic individual, can still have joy and meaning in my life. Pleasure is an intrinsic naturally occurring source of joy and meaning and it does not come through our way of thinking alone at all just how sight, hearing, touch, smell, etc. also don't come through our way of thinking either. They are all different mental states from our thinking.

Your cure is at your fingertips.
Forget dreams, they only look inwards with confused eyes. They say nothing about your future, but only the confused ramblings of events of the past that need sorting. Let the dreams deal with that.
Concentrating on your problem is also no solution, that also is inward looking.
Depression is the weight of you having to deal with your self, compressing ever inwards. You are depressed because you are blocked off and going round in circles.

People often let off stream and reset them selves by getting 'out of it'. This can be achieved with booze and drugs, or by filling your senses with input. Look outwards, not inwards. Discover, explore, listen to music, here the birds in the trees. Open your eyes and see.

[MozartLink]

Thanks for the feedback so far. I would like to talk about something here that is brief for others to address as well. I have been wondering about the non-hedonistic version of joy and meaning that a depressed and/or anhedonic person can have in their lives. I am very skeptical of it because I am really thinking here that our pleasure (good moods) are the only source of joy, inspiration, and meaning in one's life.

If a person is able to achieve the non-hedonistic version of joy and meaning in his/her life, then does it offer a whole new experience? In other words, does it offer an experience that is more than just words and phrases? For example, if a depressed person thought to his/herself that he/she still has joy and meaning in his/her life even without feeling any pleasure, then would it be an experience that says:

"Wow, this experience is far more than just words and phrases! I used to be a hedonist who thought that pleasure was the only profound joyful and meaningful experience in my life. But now that I have achieved this new version of joy and meaning in my life, it no longer feels like mere words and phrases like before. Before I could tell myself all I wanted that my life still has joy and meaning while depressed. But it was all nothing more than mere words and phrases at the time. But now, it is different. I am now experiencing a whole new mental state. It doesn't even feel like words and phrases anymore. It doesn't even feel like mere thoughts anymore. No longer is it just a mere intellectual experience. I am now experiencing a whole new mental state entirely. It is a whole new version of joy and meaning in my life now!"

So I am wondering here that if I can somehow achieve the non-hedonistic version of joy and meaning in my life, if this experience will, in fact, give my life joy and meaning. Or if this promised version of joy and meaning that others say I can have in my life is nothing more than words and phrases. If it's nothing more than just words and phrases (thoughts) with nothing more to them than that, then I would have to completely disagree that this is a form of joy and meaning a depressed and/or anhedonic person can have in his/her life.

To me, that would just be nothing more than the words and phrases of joy and meaning, but not any actual experience (perception) of joy and meaning. We have different mental states (perceptions). We have the perception of sight, hearing, thought, touch, etc. But we also have the perception known as pleasure. Pleasure is what allows a person to perceive joy and meaning in his/her life. It is no different than how sight and hearing are the only things that allow a person to perceive sound and visual things.

Now imagine if I told a blind and deaf person that they can still have sight and hearing in their lives just by thinking so. Or if I told a person paralyzed from a stroke that they can still move by thinking so or that a person who has no ability to taste food can still taste food just by thinking so. This would be nonsense. Therefore, this is what it is like to tell me that I, as a depressed and anhedonic individual, can still have joy and meaning in my life. Pleasure is an intrinsic naturally occurring source of joy and meaning and it does not come through our way of thinking alone at all just how sight, hearing, touch, smell, etc. also don't come through our way of thinking either. They are all different mental states from our thinking.

Your cure is at your fingertips.
Forget dreams, they only look inwards with confused eyes. They say nothing about your future, but only the confused ramblings of events of the past that need sorting. Let the dreams deal with that.
Concentrating on your problem is also no solution, that also is inward looking.
Depression is the weight of you having to deal with your self, compressing ever inwards. You are depressed because you are blocked off and going round in circles.

People often let off stream and reset them selves by getting 'out of it'. This can be achieved with booze and drugs, or by filling your senses with input. Look outwards, not inwards. Discover, explore, listen to music, here the birds in the trees. Open your eyes and see.

This is not as simple as that. This is something I do need to talk about. So I am going to ask this question here. Do you or do you not agree that I, as a depressed and anhedonic individual, can still have joy and meaning in my life through just thinking so? If you do agree, then how is this possible considering that the mental experience of these words and phrases offer no joyful meaningful experience in my life?

See, you have to be careful here. You cannot just say you have joy and meaning in your life just because you think so just as you also cannot say that you are able to move around while paralyzed or that you can see and hear while blind and deaf just because you think you can. We are not looking at the words and phrases themselves because to do so will only fool you. It's no different than that example I just gave here of a person fooling themselves into thinking they have sight and hearing just by thinking so when they are blind and deaf or that they are still able to move just by thinking so when they are paralyzed.

So we cannot look at the words and phrases (thoughts) themselves. Instead, we have to look at the mental states themselves. We instead have to look at all our different mental experiences themselves. So if a blind and deaf person thought to his/herself that he/she still has sight and hearing, then that said experience would not be sight and hearing and nor would it be any experience of movement for that paralyzed person either who thought that he/she can still move while paralyzed by thinking so.

It would be the words sight, hearing, and movement. But not any experience of those said things. Therefore, I look at what kind of experience the words (thoughts) joy and meaning give my life while I am depressed and anhedonic. Sure enough, the energy (experience) I sense from these types of thoughts is nothing more than a bland, dull, lifeless, intellectual mechanical experience. But if my brain were to get the pleasure signal right now like how I did in the past, then I would clearly sense a life-filled joyful and meaningful experience all around in my life.

Therefore, it goes without saying that it is instead pleasure that offers one a joyful meaningful experience in their lives and that people are only fooling themselves otherwise because they are only looking at the words and phrases (thoughts) themselves rather than the type of mental experience they are getting. After all, it is our mental states (experiences) that allow us to perceive joy and meaning in the first place because you need a working brain and you need to have your mental awareness in order to perceive joy and meaning in the first place.

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So I am wondering here that if I can somehow achieve the non-hedonistic version of joy and meaning in my life, if this experience will, in fact, give my life joy and meaning.

Nobody can tell you that. The way people attain rewards - not necessarily pleasure, but something they consider worthwhile - is usually through accomplishments and relationships. If you set a goal that means something to you - whether it's intellectual, athletic, altruistic, constructive or personal - and manage to reach it, there is a payoff in self-esteem and satisfaction, as well as whatever praise and admiration you receive from others. For many depressives, this is the biggest possible payoff, because it puts them in control of their life: it's a victory over the illness.

If you are able to be close to another person - whether it's a romantic or familial relationship or a friendship, or even mere comraderie with a support group - that's a huge reward. Besides making you feel less isolated (another victory over the illness), it gives you a focus of attention outside of yourself. That's also important because depressives tend to be self-preoccupied, and that's not helpful in overcoming their condition.

Or if this promised version of joy and meaning that others say I can have in my life is nothing more than words and phrases.

Nobody's promising you anything. Making attempts to come out of your funk may be rewarding for you, or not. Trying to connect with other people may mean something to you or not. Do it if you want to change yourself, your condition and your life. Or not.

You sound rather negative to me - as if perhaps you are challenging other to provide you an external deliverance, while assuming that it won't work anyway. Doctors can prescribe medication, which can certainly be helpful in many cases (but can also backfire). Psychologists can conduct you through cognitive and mechanical therapies; can show you techniques and courses that are known to have done some patients good. Support groups can share their own experiences and activities. But, ultimately, nobody can offer you a solution. And why should they? It's your state of mind. Own it, confront it, explore it, get control of it, do what you can for yourself. ... Or not.