Hello from a wannabe "philosopher combatant"

Tell us a little about yourself.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Post Reply
Mnemoriam
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:20 pm

Hello from a wannabe "philosopher combatant"

Post by Mnemoriam » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:42 pm

Hello,

I am a Special Operations Police Officer from a violent Latin-American metropolis, and I’ve recently decided that I must learn Philosophy.

It is hard enough to live “normal” life without being able to integrate events and ideas into an established philosophical framework, but combat has taught me that failing to do so while living life-and-death situations daily is riskier than any bullet.

I have no philosophical training whatsoever, so I'd like to thank you all in advance for any wisdom you can impart to me, as well as to apologize for not being able to collaborate much around here for quite a while.

Best

EchoesOfTheHorizon
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Hello from a wannabe "philosopher combatant"

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:54 pm

Have you watched The Andy Griffith Show, about American Paramilitary Forces operating in the Deep South of America during the era of civil rights movement here in America, of it's military spinoff, Gomer Pyle, who joins the Marine Corps during the Vietnam War?

User avatar
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 991
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Hello from a wannabe "philosopher combatant"

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:47 pm

Mnemoriam wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:42 pm
Hello,

I am a Special Operations Police Officer from a violent Latin-American metropolis, and I’ve recently decided that I must learn Philosophy.

It is hard enough to live “normal” life without being able to integrate events and ideas into an established philosophical framework, but combat has taught me that failing to do so while living life-and-death situations daily is riskier than any bullet.

I have no philosophical training whatsoever, so I'd like to thank you all in advance for any wisdom you can impart to me, as well as to apologize for not being able to collaborate much around here for quite a while.

Best
Welcome,

Everyone is a philosopher to some degree, as everyone is pursuing knowledge to some degree. Philosophy translates to "love of knowledge", so you are no different in this regard than the rest of us. In many respects we all suffer the same sickness of ignorance.

Here are 10 short tips that will hopefully give you what you are after:

1) Philosophy at it's core is observation. When observing, ideally it is best to look at the "Positives", "Negatives" and "Neutrals". Practice this form of reasoning and you will be able to understand the nature of the problems you face.

2) Listen to what everyone has to say, regardless of how intelligent or stupid they are...there is a degree of truth in everything. Practice suspending judgement when listening both in regards to the speaker and what is spoken.

3) When you decide to argue a point, or formulate and idea, understand the nature of what you are stating inside and out so that it will withstand questions from both yourself and others. Reality is both justification and belief and what you argue will formulate reality in some manner or another....whether you intend for it to happen or not.

4) Be honest with yourself in what you feel and think. If you think or feel a certain way, be honest with yourself as to why...otherwise you are just shorting yourself and hurting others in the process.

5) Knowledge is perspective and perspectives are rooted in knowledge. Knowledge and Perspective are inseparable.

6) When you find the knowledge you are after, realize you cannot hold onto it. Learn to be able to let go, we destroy things when we hold on to them to hard.

7) Everyone is confused at some point or another, those "who know everything" buckle the quickest and know the least. Pride inhibits knowledge and most of us know nothing.

8 ) When discussing an idea, be open to humiliation and do not be afraid of it. When you win a debate take no pride in it, but strictly acknowledge it for what it is.

9) Don't take things too seriously....the genius and the fool share the same fate.

10) Question everything, not in a spirit of doubt, but rather to understand what its nature is....including the 9 points above.



I hope you find what you are looking for here.

Mnemoriam
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: Hello from a wannabe "philosopher combatant"

Post by Mnemoriam » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:17 am

EchoesOfTheHorizon wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:54 pm
Have you watched The Andy Griffith Show, about American Paramilitary Forces operating in the Deep South of America during the era of civil rights movement here in America, of it's military spinoff, Gomer Pyle, who joins the Marine Corps during the Vietnam War?
Hi,

Thanks for jumping in.

No. In fact, I had never heard of it before googling it because of your commentary. I don’t usually watch TV series or comedy. I guess I should, though, especially comedy…

Is there any “philosophical” reason you mentioned it, or did I just remind you of it for being a combatant?

Could you point me to a specific episode of interest I might find online? Wikipedia says there are 150 Gomer Pyle episodes…

Best,
M.

Mnemoriam
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: Hello from a wannabe "philosopher combatant"

Post by Mnemoriam » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:43 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:47 pm
Welcome,

Everyone is a philosopher to some degree, as everyone is pursuing knowledge to some degree. Philosophy translates to "love of knowledge", so you are no different in this regard than the rest of us. In many respects we all suffer the same sickness of ignorance.

Here are 10 short tips that will hopefully give you what you are after:
Hi,

Thanks a lot for your welcoming message; I couldn’t ask for more. There is great “food for thought” here, which I intend to let handy for future reference while chewing on it when appropriate. I won’t pretend to have already digested it all, but I’d like to make very brief comments on your bullet points:
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:47 pm


1) Philosophy at it's core is observation. When observing, ideally it is best to look at the "Positives", "Negatives" and "Neutrals". Practice this form of reasoning and you will be able to understand the nature of the problems you face.
1) Decision-making in real life is so hard that I tend to dichotomise everything. Black or white, 8 or 80, right or wrong, good or bad. I used to say that “Life is fuzzy (as in Fuzzy Logic), but I am binary”. I guess I had to do so to survive reasonably unscathed. I think that to add a third category — your “Neutrals” — demand more wisdom than I have now. But I’ll think about it.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:47 pm
2) Listen to what everyone has to say, regardless of how intelligent or stupid they are...there is a degree of truth in everything. Practice suspending judgement when listening both in regards to the speaker and what is spoken.
2) When I am able to reason properly, I usually do suspend judgement; unfortunately, I am not always rational. But I do listen, and I see myself as a good student — not for my brightness, but for my honest willingness to learn.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:47 pm
3) When you decide to argue a point, or formulate and idea, understand the nature of what you are stating inside and out so that it will withstand questions from both yourself and others. Reality is both justification and belief and what you argue will formulate reality in some manner or another....whether you intend for it to happen or not.
3) This is a defect of mine: I tend to be satisfied with only superficial understanding, at times. I need to improve on that.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:47 pm
4) Be honest with yourself in what you feel and think. If you think or feel a certain way, be honest with yourself as to why...otherwise you are just shorting yourself and hurting others in the process.
4) True. Hard to always do so, though.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:47 pm
5) Knowledge is perspective and perspectives are rooted in knowledge. Knowledge and Perspective are inseparable.
5) I need to think more about this to really grasp what you mean.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:47 pm
6) When you find the knowledge you are after, realize you cannot hold onto it. Learn to be able to let go, we destroy things when we hold on to them to hard.
6) I believe knowledge (and, maybe, even Truth) is contextual. You might know and be right in a given context, based on all the knowledge you can afford, only to realize you are wrong when your horizon enlarges. So, yes, you need to be able to let go.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:47 pm
7) Everyone is confused at some point or another, those "who know everything" buckle the quickest and know the least. Pride inhibits knowledge and most of us know nothing.
7) I am confused all the time.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:47 pm
8- When discussing an idea, be open to humiliation and do not be afraid of it. When you win a debate take no pride in it, but strictly acknowledge it for what it is.
8- I don’t usually have whom to discuss ideas with. I intend to do so here, although I realize it’s going to be hard.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:47 pm
9) Don't take things too seriously....the genius and the fool share the same fate.
9) This is a bit hard for me. I am serious and grave. Probably, too much. That’s why I've mentioned in the above response I might need some comedy…
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:47 pm
10) Question everything, not in a spirit of doubt, but rather to understand what its nature is....including the 9 points above.
10) I will.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:47 pm
I hope you find what you are looking for here.
Thanks again.

Best,
M.

User avatar
SpheresOfBalance
Posts: 5087
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
Location: On a Metamorphic Elemental

Re: Hello from a wannabe "philosopher combatant"

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:39 am

Mnemoriam wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:42 pm
Hello,

I am a Special Operations Police Officer from a violent Latin-American metropolis, and I’ve recently decided that I must learn Philosophy.

It is hard enough to live “normal” life without being able to integrate events and ideas into an established philosophical framework, but combat has taught me that failing to do so while living life-and-death situations daily is riskier than any bullet.

I have no philosophical training whatsoever, so I'd like to thank you all in advance for any wisdom you can impart to me, as well as to apologize for not being able to collaborate much around here for quite a while.

Best
I'm afraid that if you understand philosophy, you might decide to change your occupation. I have found that with the philosophy quest, I believed would lead to the certain truth of things, instead leads to ever more questions. I was looking for truth at the end of the philosophy rainbow, but instead of my life becoming easier, it's become harder. Which is not to say that if I could go back in time that I'd do it any differently. I'd rather struggle with the truth in knowledge than to have it easy with the falsehoods of ignorance.

Anyway, welcome and good luck on your quest. May it illuminate the truth, so you can have the utmost peace of mind, where ever it may lead you.


Happy Holidays to all!!

And if you don't celebrate any upcoming Holidays, celebrate the diversity of life as the gift that it certainly is.

EchoesOfTheHorizon
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Hello from a wannabe "philosopher combatant"

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:57 am

Doubtful he will quit his occupation, military has about equal the scope as civilian philosophers, and just as much antiquity, they often covered the same topics.

I was joking about Andy Griffith and Gomer Pyle, they are both light hearted comedy shows from the era prior to the "rural purge" in American television, when we made a switch from shows about conservative country life to one more focused youths in the city. Gomer Pyle is mentally incompetent, goes into the military and goofs up every episode. Andy Griffith is a sheriff with one deputy, who can't be trusted to carry a loaded gun because he keeps having accidental discharges, it too is a comedy.

What you need from your reply would be starting off, Colonel John Boyd and his OODA Loop. You'll find once learning it, you likely won't be feeling the need to abandon the police force.

He was a fighter pilot ace in Vietnam (hard to get that status in the age of jets) and developed a basic theory of how the human mind develops ideas. He intentionally never copywrited the info, so you can use it, modify it, etc.

The basic idea of his OODA Loop:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... yd.svg.png

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop

I've worked out a simpler model of the OODA Loop here:

http://imageshack.com/a/img921/6070/d7vmCW.png

This doesn't cover everything in philosophy, but it is a good start. In the US, the F-22 Raptor is designed off this theory, the US Marine Corps adopted it as the basis of it's war fighting manual, and I myself use it heavily. You'll find the modified version the basis of my arguments (being disputed, but we will see where it goes) in the Solipsism thread, I'm just not in a rush to explain it in depth right now, as this is my 400th Solipsism discussion. Anyone one wanting to know where I'll go in that thread will merely have to look here, I'm remarkably consistent.

Of course lots and lots more, but you'll have to stick around, show you have interests beyond just the need to excel in your profession, and learn a little about Andy Griffith and Gomer Pyle. It is good for you, to be well rounded and light hearted, even when the world is otherwise harsh, too often lethal, and otherwise uncaring.

User avatar
SpheresOfBalance
Posts: 5087
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
Location: On a Metamorphic Elemental

Re: Hello from a wannabe "philosopher combatant"

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:15 am

EchoesOfTheHorizon wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:57 am
Doubtful he will quit his occupation... <snip>

If I was to take you seriously, then you're condemning him as not being a very good student? And how could you possibly know. Determinism alone should cause him to rethink his career choice, but if he added psychology, sociology and history, paid attention, and formed them into one large picture on life, there should be no doubt of a career change.

And I know all too well your modus operandi, you're transparent, and quite laughable, you remind me of both Gomer and his cousin Goober, but I'd say you're definitely more of a "goober!" ;-)


Happy Holidays my friend.

And who cares if you celebrate it! :lol:

EchoesOfTheHorizon
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Hello from a wannabe "philosopher combatant"

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:59 am

You have to undertake those very subjects to master the corpus left behind since antiquity on military writers, who occupy a considerable portion of the history of philosophy. Police evolved out of this. I was able to take very quickly to civilian authors due to my background, already had many of the concepts floating around in my head.

That is essentially the problem. Anyone pursuing a study of statecraft, or military strategy, is left studying twice the caseload, that someone just going for civilian philosophy, and a lot of the authors cover the same ideas. It literally is twice the load.

Once he realizes the options open for him, he may very well realize it is all applicable to his profession, that he can impliment positive changes, and pursue his craft and be a philosopher from within. This sorta was, after all, Plato's grand plan.

I know from experience most don't stick with the program. Most bail out, upon seeing just how insanely large the body of literature is. West Point spends a whole year just teaching Immanuel Kant's Categorical Imperative, but it is within the light of a wide range of other works and concepts they are balancing. Someone not going to West Point.... they don't get a year to just meditate on a single idea, that can encompass every other. Someone doing it on their own has no idea that for example, traditions like Mirrors for Princes evolved out of Roman and Greek ethical texts. He might only know of one or two, like Machiavelli's The Prince, not knowing there is a massive tradition behind that. He might know of Sun Tzu or Clausewitz, and be barely aware of the massive tradition behind both. Same with military historians, or tacticians. We have some big names in antiquity, such as Onasander (a Platonic philosopher, wrote a deceptively simple looking text on military tactics, but the years I've looked it over, the more and more insights I see into philosophy in general in his approach) or even one of the four traditions of Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching (pure statecraft, not remotely mystical), as well as pairings of philosophers with military thinkers.

It is sprinkled all over, and I have never ever ever came across a single repository of all the works. Most are scattered. Attempts have been made, but disappointing in the end.

If he gets into philosophy in his current profession, he may find he can't leave his profession. There is nothing shameful about being a cop, and wanting to rush off to become a full time historian or professor isn't necessarily the goal he will have. Just as likely he might aim to become police chief, or run for office, or join the federal government for his country. A lot of valid reasons to stay in. I'm tired of people thinking it is either-or. One can be a philosopher in the military, in the police, holding a gun, jumping out a parachute, arming artillery, stacking up outside a door before you raid a house, and be way more intelligent than your average philosophy professor. If anything, we have a pressing need for more. Crime is getting off the hook in many places, good thinkers are needed there to revalute the situation.

And I am transparent. I'm also indomitable. I don't hide either. I just doubt he is going to drop everything and run to a university to hide from his current job. It is quite possible to do both, Descartes pulled it off, he actively campaigned for years. Same for Prince Rupert of the Rhine, perhaps the greatest thinker the English ever had on their soil (and I suspect he bought Descartes missing Notebook).

He can be a cop, and do philosophy, but I'm not going to do a mass flood of works either for him to look up and read. If I see he is actively exploring other ideas, like civilian writers, then I'll give more and more up over time. I'm not going to just slap it all down though. Never did that for anyone. He wouldn't know where to start.

I should note, I had the opposite problem when I bought my first copy of Philosophy Now, back in 2004 in Fort Benning, Georgia. I was in Airborne School, and they made up sit (we could read) in the doorways of the barracks because that building had no doors (seriously, no doors anywhere). So I saw the magazine, sat down, started reading it.... didn't find it too amazing, but kept with it, and the Battalion Command Sargent Major saw me reading it, and noticed I was enlisted straight out of basic (a lot of future officers go through, from college, have a different sort of unit badge). He flipped a lid. Said I was the first person he ever saw reading a philosophy magazine, and thought he now seen anything, and started yelling at others in the yard, pointing at me, telling me to keep reading, and using me as a bizarre example of what not to do. I'm saying it far more diplomatically.

I get the same damn treatment in reverse, with civilian philosophers. Half get angry I was in the military, no real clue what I did or did not do.... if they ask upset I just say I made ear necklaces, more or less what they think anyway. It is worst than the split between western and eastern philosophy, and ironically in the east, they have a even stronger split between martial and civil philosophy. No clue why, largely the same topics in discussion booth east and west, military or civilian. A similar split is growing between theology and philosophy, I would be just as honest and fair to point out to any aspiring theologian to stick around, a lot of the atheists are going to insist you gotta give up, jump over to become a philosopher.... I say just stay put. You got twice the workload. You gotta read twice the workload in that case as well, and many of the great church fathers, monastics, and modern day theologians are heavy in philosophy, and not always aware they are, and a lot of cross over will exist. A good community needs all sorts of people, dedicated people.

Mnemoriam
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: Hello from a wannabe "philosopher combatant"

Post by Mnemoriam » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:22 pm

I am afraid both of you are correct, in a way.

It’s hard to summarise what’s going on with me right now, first, because of our lack of a common background, and, second, because I myself can’t explain it yet… not even to myself.

That’s why I need Philosophy.

But I’ll try a bit, anyway.

First, with respect to background, I am not from the military. Things are weird here. We have two police forces, one military, the other civil. Both have their own special units. Both have their “skull brevets”. I am one of the only three guys in the country to have both. So, in a way, I am from the military too. But my actual occupation is in the Civil Police Force.

Unfortunately, it’s going to be hard for you to imagine how things are here. If you think West Point, Seal Team 6, or even SWAT, you are way off. Things are a mess down here. We have no support whatsoever from the government, from society, or even from the “non-special” policeman. In fact, it is hard to have support and unity among ourselves. I remember when I went through SWAT School in Miami, 2010, and people began applauding us while we were doing PT running through the city’s streets. That was beautiful... and unheard-of to me.

It's we that make the unit “special” because we are crazy and we just go wherever we have to go. But, when I began this job, some 16 years ago, they simply selected me because I had volunteered, put an AR-15 in my hands, and said: “Go”. Nobody studies military strategy or Machiavelli or even Sun Tzu. People don’t have time because they have to work in a second job (usually, as bodyguards) to make ends meet and, when they are particularly applied, go to Law School to try to become a deputy or a state attorney or a judge. These are the usual professions cops try to get around here, and all they demand is that you pass on a test (albeit a VERY hard one). There is no experience or merit involved in getting these professions. And they don’t read that kind of stuff in Law School either. I did one year of it and it’s laughable. I remember watching a teacher mention Stoicism and when I made a question about it, it was clear she knew nothing about the subject.

Anyway, now a bit about my current situation, and about you both been right, in a way. I have just asked for an extended leave from the Police. Right now, I am paying for other people to work in my place (yes, we can do that here; we are that replaceable) while I wait for the bureaucracy to end and my official leave to begin. I hope to have a nine-month leave; at least, I know I have the right to.

Socrates said in the Apology that “an unexamined life is not worth living”, but what his deed told us, by the end of the Apology, is that a life without integrity is not worth living. If I stayed in my unit any longer, I would have to compromise my integrity. The level of "moral corruption" I see all around is unbearable. Ideally, I should have striven to make things better (in a way, I did), but I guess I am too weak to be successful. I don’t know how to do it. The truth is that I have tried to analyze my life while working in my unit, but it is too hard. It is hard enough (I imagine) to deal with difficult philosophical problems from a scholarly distance, but when you are neck-deep involved in them, it is almost impossible. At least, I can’t. I have tried, but it is too hard to see the forest instead of just the trees. I need distance.

So, I have to agree with SpheresOfBalance, in a way, not only because the little I’ve read in Philosophy does put a lot that I do in question, but also because I am tired of the “falsehoods of ignorance” he mentioned.

However, just the few days that I have been away already give me an acrid taste of defeat, of giving up. If one of my men get shot while I am away (I am [was] the leader of my squad), I am afraid of how I am going to feel. But I guess this is always the case when you have to retreat a long way in order to find a better path just to get where you were previously. I do think this long detour is necessary, though. I left as if this nine-month leave would become a final decision with respect to my current occupation, and it might; but one way or another I will keep doing it and living it. If whatever tortuous paths in my life turn me into a philosopher or a writer or even a politician, I know it is as a “skull” that I will carry on with these professions. I might do more for them that way than in my current occupation, who knows...

But these are all conjectures; for now, all I know is that I need to think and learn, to analyze my life and the world around me in search for some understanding.

Thanks for already “forcing” me to do so.

Best,
M.


P.S.: We have a similar OODA loop here, and I have used it quite many times. Translating, it would be SSFOS (Stop - Sit down - Feed yourself - Orient yourself - Steer). It is clearly influenced by “lost in the jungle” situations, but if you accept broader connotations of the terms it is applicable for any situation in life. I’ll read more about OODA, thanks.

Mnemoriam
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: Hello from a wannabe "philosopher combatant"

Post by Mnemoriam » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:25 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:39 am
Anyway, welcome and good luck on your quest. May it illuminate the truth, so you can have the utmost peace of mind, where ever it may lead you.

Happy Holidays to all!!
I never said "thank you", so... Thank you.

And Happy Holidays for you too!

Best,
M.

User avatar
SpheresOfBalance
Posts: 5087
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
Location: On a Metamorphic Elemental

Re: Hello from a wannabe "philosopher combatant"

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:14 pm

EchoesOfTheHorizon wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:59 am
You have to undertake those very subjects to master the corpus left behind since antiquity on military writers, who occupy a considerable portion of the history of philosophy. Police evolved out of this. I was able to take very quickly to civilian authors due to my background, already had many of the concepts floating around in my head.

That is essentially the problem. Anyone pursuing a study of statecraft, or military strategy, is left studying twice the caseload, that someone just going for civilian philosophy, and a lot of the authors cover the same ideas. It literally is twice the load.

Once he realizes the options open for him, he may very well realize it is all applicable to his profession, that he can impliment positive changes, and pursue his craft and be a philosopher from within. This sorta was, after all, Plato's grand plan.

I know from experience most don't stick with the program. Most bail out, upon seeing just how insanely large the body of literature is. West Point spends a whole year just teaching Immanuel Kant's Categorical Imperative, but it is within the light of a wide range of other works and concepts they are balancing. Someone not going to West Point.... they don't get a year to just meditate on a single idea, that can encompass every other. Someone doing it on their own has no idea that for example, traditions like Mirrors for Princes evolved out of Roman and Greek ethical texts. He might only know of one or two, like Machiavelli's The Prince, not knowing there is a massive tradition behind that. He might know of Sun Tzu or Clausewitz, and be barely aware of the massive tradition behind both. Same with military historians, or tacticians. We have some big names in antiquity, such as Onasander (a Platonic philosopher, wrote a deceptively simple looking text on military tactics, but the years I've looked it over, the more and more insights I see into philosophy in general in his approach) or even one of the four traditions of Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching (pure statecraft, not remotely mystical), as well as pairings of philosophers with military thinkers.

It is sprinkled all over, and I have never ever ever came across a single repository of all the works. Most are scattered. Attempts have been made, but disappointing in the end.

If he gets into philosophy in his current profession, he may find he can't leave his profession. There is nothing shameful about being a cop, and wanting to rush off to become a full time historian or professor isn't necessarily the goal he will have. Just as likely he might aim to become police chief, or run for office, or join the federal government for his country. A lot of valid reasons to stay in. I'm tired of people thinking it is either-or. One can be a philosopher in the military, in the police, holding a gun, jumping out a parachute, arming artillery, stacking up outside a door before you raid a house, and be way more intelligent than your average philosophy professor. If anything, we have a pressing need for more. Crime is getting off the hook in many places, good thinkers are needed there to revalute the situation.

And I am transparent. I'm also indomitable. I don't hide either. I just doubt he is going to drop everything and run to a university to hide from his current job. It is quite possible to do both, Descartes pulled it off, he actively campaigned for years. Same for Prince Rupert of the Rhine, perhaps the greatest thinker the English ever had on their soil (and I suspect he bought Descartes missing Notebook).

He can be a cop, and do philosophy, but I'm not going to do a mass flood of works either for him to look up and read. If I see he is actively exploring other ideas, like civilian writers, then I'll give more and more up over time. I'm not going to just slap it all down though. Never did that for anyone. He wouldn't know where to start.

I should note, I had the opposite problem when I bought my first copy of Philosophy Now, back in 2004 in Fort Benning, Georgia. I was in Airborne School, and they made up sit (we could read) in the doorways of the barracks because that building had no doors (seriously, no doors anywhere). So I saw the magazine, sat down, started reading it.... didn't find it too amazing, but kept with it, and the Battalion Command Sargent Major saw me reading it, and noticed I was enlisted straight out of basic (a lot of future officers go through, from college, have a different sort of unit badge). He flipped a lid. Said I was the first person he ever saw reading a philosophy magazine, and thought he now seen anything, and started yelling at others in the yard, pointing at me, telling me to keep reading, and using me as a bizarre example of what not to do. I'm saying it far more diplomatically.

I get the same damn treatment in reverse, with civilian philosophers. Half get angry I was in the military, no real clue what I did or did not do.... if they ask upset I just say I made ear necklaces, more or less what they think anyway. It is worst than the split between western and eastern philosophy, and ironically in the east, they have a even stronger split between martial and civil philosophy. No clue why, largely the same topics in discussion booth east and west, military or civilian. A similar split is growing between theology and philosophy, I would be just as honest and fair to point out to any aspiring theologian to stick around, a lot of the atheists are going to insist you gotta give up, jump over to become a philosopher.... I say just stay put. You got twice the workload. You gotta read twice the workload in that case as well, and many of the great church fathers, monastics, and modern day theologians are heavy in philosophy, and not always aware they are, and a lot of cross over will exist. A good community needs all sorts of people, dedicated people.
Primarily all you did was talk philosophy, you seem to have missed how psychology, sociology and history informs philosophy and vise verse. Once you understand how those all come together, you'd see my point! Maybe!! I mean I am giving you the benefit of doubt here.


Happy Holidays, my friends. ;-)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest