My name is Dave. I'm a Determinist.

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Dave Mangnall
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My name is Dave. I'm a Determinist.

Post by Dave Mangnall »

Hi, to any one who reads this. I have a general interest in Philosophy but my particular passion is Determinism. For many years I have believed that Free Will is an illusion, and that the rejection of that illusion is the most tremendously liberating experience. And in all those many years, I've never met a single soul who agrees with me. Is there anybody out there?
surreptitious57
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Re: My name is Dave. I'm a Determinist.

Post by surreptitious57 »

Free will is an illusion and has been demonstrated to be by neuroscience
That might explain why you have never met anyone who agrees with you
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: My name is Dave. I'm a Determinist.

Post by Bill Wiltrack »

.




.................................................I agree with the original poster...Unfortunately.




.
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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk »

Hey, Dave...welcome.

"the rejection of that illusion is the most tremendously liberating experience"

How can that be? If determinism is right (and I don't think it is), then that sense of liberation is as much an illusion as the sense of self-direction that informs free will (or agency).

If determinism is right, all you can really say is 'the illusion of rejecting an illusion feels liberating, but is itself just a determined event'. Of course, if determinism is right then you really got no say in what you say at all... :|
duszek
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Re: My name is Dave. I'm a Determinist.

Post by duszek »

So when you feel like making your mother in law disappear for ever you just watch your hand grabbing a knife and see what happens ?

Or is the "Fate" moving your hand ?
Dalek Prime
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Re: My name is Dave. I'm a Determinist.

Post by Dalek Prime »

Yeah, but are you a determinist because you want to be one, or determined to be one? And who the fuck cares anyways? You wouldn't know the difference. Big whoop.
duszek
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Re: My name is Dave. I'm a Determinist.

Post by duszek »

I try to formulate even more deterministically:

I watch a feeling of annoyance regarding my mother in law enter my head.
I watch my hand form a fist and bump the table.
Then my body gets in motion, gets into the kitchen, one hand grabs a knife, my body moves swiftly to the sitting room where my mother in law is sitting and watching TV ...

Later on I watch my mouth telling inspector Barnaby that things just happen on their own because there is no free will.
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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk »

"who the fuck cares anyways?"

Well, I do...kinda...sorta...mebbe.
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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk »

"are you a determinist because you want to be one, or determined to be one?"

If Dave (and all the other determinists) are right, he has no more of a choice in recognizing determinism than I have in recognizing agency, as each of us is just a bio-robot going through programmed motions.

If I'm right (and Dave is self-directing), then Dave has a choice (and is responsible for his choices).
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Terrapin Station
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Re: My name is Dave. I'm a Determinist.

Post by Terrapin Station »

surreptitious57 wrote:Free will is an illusion and has been demonstrated to be by neuroscience
That might explain why you have never met anyone who agrees with you
What do you take to be the neuroscientific demonstration that free will doesn't obtain?
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: My name is Dave. I'm a Determinist.

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.




.................................................I agree with the original poster...Unfortunately.




.
But we are all determined never to care what you think.
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Immanuel Can
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Re:

Post by Immanuel Can »

henry quirk wrote:Hey, Dave...welcome.

"the rejection of that illusion is the most tremendously liberating experience"

How can that be? If determinism is right (and I don't think it is), then that sense of liberation is as much an illusion as the sense of self-direction that informs free will (or agency).

If determinism is right, all you can really say is 'the illusion of rejecting an illusion feels liberating, but is itself just a determined event'. Of course, if determinism is right then you really got no say in what you say at all... :|
Yep, that would be true, Henry. Good point.

I was having an argument with a Determinist once. He was trying to make his case that I should join him in his lunacy. So I said to him, "I'm sorry; I just can't believe you: you see, I was predetermined not to be able to." :wink:

He didn't know what to say, and gave up.
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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk »

"He didn't know what to say, and gave up."

That's usually what happens with honest or insightful determinists...dishonest or dull ones just ignore the point and keep right on pressing, which, of course, is all they can do, if truly 'determined' (in any sense of the word).
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HexHammer
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Re: My name is Dave. I'm a Determinist.

Post by HexHammer »

a very very few very intelligent people does indeed have free will, but in extremely limited amount. We are habitual creatures filled with OCD and what not.
Impenitent
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Re: My name is Dave. I'm a Determinist.

Post by Impenitent »

I was a detourminist once, but I got around it...

-Imp
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