Intro, not for the weak of heart

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Dalek Prime wrote:Nicola, don't allow people to make you feel inadequate or 'sick' for a pessimistic bias. Optimism is a bias, and no more correct than the other, but goes uncriticised. But optimists don't get ad hominemed for it.
And equally one shouldn't try and change the mind of one that may be trying to find optimism, just so they have a partner in pessimism.

Brain chemistry, that's a little off, is real my friend!

The man that doesn't question himself is certainly a fool, or damaged.

Your view, while I see some merits contained within it, in the face of the species overflowing the limits of equilibrium, the ecosystem, is definitely opposed to all life, yet it's that podium of life on which you stand making your claim, hypocritical?, contradictory?, irrational? If not for your birth, you'd have no voice to deny your life, funny, no?

For one who's life is so abysmal, they should either attempt to improve it, enjoy bitching about it, therein finding their joy (kinda weird), or induce the sleep of no dreaming. I think the more sane choice, knowing the universe for what it is, is the former, as it's the only choice that requires any real work. No one here is just simply lazy, are they? Some people feed on challenge, definitely not afraid of it. How about you? Do you like competing in anything, other than this argument?
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by Dalek Prime »

Pessimism is not based on a bad life, though you'd like to portray it so. And as I've said to Doc, until one of you bother to read the literature of antinatalism and its many well thought arguments, you have nothing to say that is not based in ignorance, or ad hominem.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Dalek Prime wrote:Pessimism is not based on a bad life, though you'd like to portray it so. And as I've said to Doc, until one of you bother to read the literature of antinatalism and its many well thought arguments, you have nothing to say that is not based in ignorance, or ad hominem.
Lets see...

pessimism [pes-uh-miz-uh m]

noun
1. the tendency to see, anticipate, or emphasize only bad or undesirable outcomes, results, conditions, problems, etc.:
His pessimism about the future of our country depresses me.
2. the doctrine that the existing world is the worst of all possible worlds, or that all things naturally tend to evil.
3. the belief that the evil and pain in the world are not compensated for by goodness and happiness.
-dictionary.reference.com-

AND:

pessimism
Syllabification: pes·si·mism
Pronunciation: /ˈpesəˌmizəm/
Definition of pessimism in English:
noun
1 A tendency to see the worst aspect of things or believe that the worst will happen; a lack of hope or confidence in the future: the dispute cast an air of deep pessimism over the future of the peace talks

1.1 Philosophy A belief that this world is as bad as it could be or that evil will ultimately prevail over good.
-www.oxforddictionaries.com-


And so I know all I need to know about the word "pessimism."

Sounds like potentially funky brain chemistry too me; pain that has still not been dealt with.
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by Dalek Prime »

Let's see..... You haven't read the literature, and thus speak with zero knowledge of the arguments, and again imply malady. Which is what I said is all you can offer to this subject in my last post. So either offer something new, or stop. We have nothing to talk about until you are up to speed.
thedoc
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by thedoc »

Dalek Prime wrote:Pessimism is not based on a bad life, though you'd like to portray it so. And as I've said to Doc, until one of you bother to read the literature of antinatalism and its many well thought arguments, you have nothing to say that is not based in ignorance, or ad hominem.
I've heard many arguments over the years, to the effect of not having children for one reason or another, so the concept is not unknown to me. If there are specific articles that you can link to that you feel are of special value, please do so, I will try to read them. Hopefully they will contain information that I have not heard before.

I am familiar with the argument that the world is a bad place for innocent people, I don't necessarily agree, and I don't agree that living automatically means suffering, that aspect of Buddhism, I reject.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by Arising_uk »

Dalek Prime wrote:Not true. A woman wanting to conceive can impact her pregnancy through prior drug use.
Hardly applicable to your position tho' as from where you stand she could do all the drugs she liked as she won't be having a baby in the first place.
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by Dalek Prime »

Arising_uk wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:Not true. A woman wanting to conceive can impact her pregnancy through prior drug use.
Hardly applicable to your position tho' as from where you stand she could do all the drugs she liked as she won't be having a baby in the first place.
Stop being a dick.
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by Dalek Prime »

thedoc wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:Pessimism is not based on a bad life, though you'd like to portray it so. And as I've said to Doc, until one of you bother to read the literature of antinatalism and its many well thought arguments, you have nothing to say that is not based in ignorance, or ad hominem.
I've heard many arguments over the years, to the effect of not having children for one reason or another, so the concept is not unknown to me. If there are specific articles that you can link to that you feel are of special value, please do so, I will try to read them. Hopefully they will contain information that I have not heard before.

I am familiar with the argument that the world is a bad place for innocent people, I don't necessarily agree, and I don't agree that living automatically means suffering, that aspect of Buddhism, I reject.
Then you must also reject the bibles many references to suffering too.

Didn't you download the Benatar book, Doc?
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Arising_uk
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by Arising_uk »

Dalek Prime wrote:Stop being a dick.
You deny that your position is that she should not have babies?
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by Dalek Prime »

Arising_uk wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:Stop being a dick.
You deny that your position is that she should not have babies?
This isn't about me, remember? This is about drug counsellors. And they would counsel that people on drugs should not try to get pregnant. So, what is it you are driving at?

You're still a dick. Go find someone else to bug. Unless you read the books I've posted. Then I'll talk with you on the subject, as I will anyone else who does. ie. Doc and SOB.

You've plenty of time to read up. I'm taking a summer break. Back in autumn.
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by thedoc »

I haven't been able to read everything, but from what I have read and heard in the past, I deny that the pain and suffering is so great that it should be avoided. From what I have seen of my own life and other peoples lives there is a great of joy and happiness and only a minor bit of suffering and pain. Only a pessimist would dwell so much on the suffering, that they fail to see the joy and happiness that is living. I see a preponderance of wonder and excitement in the world, and I want to share that with others. To deny others the opportunity to see the beauty of the world, would be to inflict a great deal of the pain of absence to others. Beauty and wonder is to be shared, not horded and selfishly kept to one's self. If you see only pain and suffering in the world, you are blind to reality.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by Arising_uk »

Dalek Prime wrote:This isn't about me, remember? This is about drug counsellors. And they would counsel that people on drugs should not try to get pregnant. So, what is it you are driving at?
But it is about you, at least the you that is promoting the idea that we should extinct ourselves.
You're still a dick. Go find someone else to bug. Unless you read the books I've posted. Then I'll talk with you on the subject, as I will anyone else who does. ie. Doc and SOB.
I've read the links you've posted and find the premise that we should extinct ourselves because living is painful laughable.
You've plenty of time to read up. I'm taking a summer break. Back in autumn.
Do you think the unborn would enjoy a summer break or is it just a sufferance?
artisticsolution
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by artisticsolution »

Arising_uk wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:This isn't about me, remember? This is about drug counsellors. And they would counsel that people on drugs should not try to get pregnant. So, what is it you are driving at?
But it is about you, at least the you that is promoting the idea that we should extinct ourselves.
You're still a dick. Go find someone else to bug. Unless you read the books I've posted. Then I'll talk with you on the subject, as I will anyone else who does. ie. Doc and SOB.
I've read the links you've posted and find the premise that we should extinct ourselves because living is painful laughable.
You've plenty of time to read up. I'm taking a summer break. Back in autumn.
Do you think the unborn would enjoy a summer break or is it just a sufferance?
Hi Arising,

I always find it odd when people think you're a dick. I have never read you that way. When I read you, your voice comes off rational and "just saying in a philosophical way" type of sound...well...except with Bill sometimes...when he's pushed you to your limit. lol

Isn't odd that we all hear each other's voice differently online?

Hi Dalek,

I have known Arising a long long time in this forum...in fact, we have been members longer than it says under our name as we were members of the first forum that was replaced with this one. Trust me when I say, I have never known him to be an antagonistic type, well...unless Bill or Bob goes all 'Bill and Bob' on him. :lol:

Now...he can be a gadfly sometimes...like socrates...lol...but only because he has a philosophical point to make and people aren't taking it the way he is delivering it. At least that has been my take on Arising. I am just glad no one has poisoned him yet! :wink:

Just try to read him in a philosophic way and not in a way like he is being confrontational and I think you will see what I mean...:)
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by Dalek Prime »

Arising_uk wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:This isn't about me, remember? This is about drug counsellors. And they would counsel that people on drugs should not try to get pregnant. So, what is it you are driving at?
But it is about you, at least the you that is promoting the idea that we should extinct ourselves.
You're still a dick. Go find someone else to bug. Unless you read the books I've posted. Then I'll talk with you on the subject, as I will anyone else who does. ie. Doc and SOB.
I've read the links you've posted and find the premise that we should extinct ourselves because living is painful laughable.
You've plenty of time to read up. I'm taking a summer break. Back in autumn.
Do you think the unborn would enjoy a summer break or is it just a sufferance?
The only laughable thing here is this piddling species that will go the way of the dodo, the sooner the better. And you haven't read a fucking thing.
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Re: Intro, not for the weak of heart

Post by Arising_uk »

Dalek Prime wrote:The only laughable thing here is this piddling species that will go the way of the dodo, ...
You think something is going to eat us?
the sooner the better. ...
For whom?
And you haven't read a fucking thing.
You wish.
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