Was math invented or discovered?

What is the basis for reason? And mathematics?

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Scott Mayers
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by Scott Mayers »

Dalek Prime wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:Well, if WE are the 'source' (inventor) of Numbers/Math
AND
TOTALITY is the 'source' of who WE are,

then, transitively,
TOTALITY is the 'source' of Numbers/Math.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiZHNw1MtzI
Yes, if...

I am not totality. I frankly don't care how I got here. All I know is my consciousness, which will end, so it doesn't matter to me, anyways. And it doesn't change the absurdity of it all.
Totality/Universe originates People who originate Numbers.

OR

Totality/Universe originates Numbers AND People.

Either way, Totality/Universe originates Numbers.
Dalek Prime
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by Dalek Prime »

And on and on we go... Here's where I step off this carousel. I did ask you to wait for a response, not to push me into a premature answer.
Scott Mayers
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by Scott Mayers »

Dalek Prime wrote:And on and on we go... Here's where I step off this carousel. I did ask you to wait for a response, not to push me into a premature answer.
Sorry, I have a hard time pulling out when I so close to a climax.
Philosophy Explorer
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

Scott Mayers wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:And on and on we go... Here's where I step off this carousel. I did ask you to wait for a response, not to push me into a premature answer.
Sorry, I have a hard time pulling out when I so close to a climax.
Dalek should be able to relate to this one :lol:

PhilX
Dalek Prime
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by Dalek Prime »

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote:And on and on we go... Here's where I step off this carousel. I did ask you to wait for a response, not to push me into a premature answer.
Sorry, I have a hard time pulling out when I so close to a climax.
Dalek should be able to relate to this one :lol:

PhilX
Lol! Yeah, why not. At least you guys have good humour.
yiostheoy
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by yiostheoy »

Philosophy Explorer wrote:Or maybe both? I'm not sure myself.

PhilX
Math is clearly simply an invention of the human mind.

The human mind wants to be able to count and measure.

The models of mathematics that were then created with various definitions then took on their own continued evolution as relationships were discovered which are consistent with the definitions and which also have practical application in the physical universe.

But if there is nobody to think about math then math simply ceases to exist.

Ergo it is a creation of the human mind only.
Dalek Prime
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by Dalek Prime »

yiostheoy wrote:
Philosophy Explorer wrote:Or maybe both? I'm not sure myself.

PhilX
Math is clearly simply an invention of the human mind.

The human mind wants to be able to count and measure.

The models of mathematics that were then created with various definitions then took on their own continued evolution as relationships were discovered which are consistent with the definitions and which also have practical application in the physical universe.

But if there is nobody to think about math then math simply ceases to exist.

Ergo it is a creation of the human mind only.
In all fairness, math doesn't cease to exist without consciousness. It's principles will continue. It just ceases to matter.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Dalek Prime wrote:
yiostheoy wrote:
Philosophy Explorer wrote:Or maybe both? I'm not sure myself.

PhilX
Math is clearly simply an invention of the human mind.

The human mind wants to be able to count and measure.

The models of mathematics that were then created with various definitions then took on their own continued evolution as relationships were discovered which are consistent with the definitions and which also have practical application in the physical universe.

But if there is nobody to think about math then math simply ceases to exist.

Ergo it is a creation of the human mind only.
In all fairness, math doesn't cease to exist without consciousness. It's principles will continue. It just ceases to matter.
How?
Dalek Prime
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by Dalek Prime »

How what?
yiostheoy
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by yiostheoy »

Dalek Prime wrote:
yiostheoy wrote:
Philosophy Explorer wrote:Or maybe both? I'm not sure myself.

PhilX
Math is clearly simply an invention of the human mind.

The human mind wants to be able to count and measure.

The models of mathematics that were then created with various definitions then took on their own continued evolution as relationships were discovered which are consistent with the definitions and which also have practical application in the physical universe.

But if there is nobody to think about math then math simply ceases to exist.

Ergo it is a creation of the human mind only.
In all fairness, math doesn't cease to exist without consciousness. It's principles will continue. It just ceases to matter.
There are no principles. It is all just definitions and inventions. It's like a game of chess.

If there is nobody left to play the game then the game no longer exists.
Dalek Prime
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by Dalek Prime »

Which is exactly what I said from a conscious point of view. But I accept that the same principles probably exist outside my sphere, whether a consciousness is there to measure the speed of light, the temperature of a star, the area under a curve, or what not. They will still be the same, unmeasured and un-pattern matched.
Nick_A
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by Nick_A »

Simone Weil's brother André Weil was a great mathematician and peer of Einstein. He wrote:
God exists since mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exists since we cannot prove it.
From this point of view the entirety of math is in the process of being discovered even though we are being met by resistance with the help of our inventions. Yes, the Devil is in the details.
Dalek Prime
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by Dalek Prime »

Nick_A wrote:Simone Weil's brother André Weil was a great mathematician and peer of Einstein. He wrote:
God exists since mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exists since we cannot prove it.
That's not anything near a logical extension. Fuck, it's downright stupid. Was he high?

From this point of view the entirety of math is in the process of being discovered even though we are being met by resistance with the help of our inventions. Yes, the Devil is in the details. How exactly is technology hindering mathematical discovery?
yiostheoy
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by yiostheoy »

Nick_A wrote:Simone Weil's brother André Weil was a great mathematician and peer of Einstein. He wrote:
God exists since mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exists since we cannot prove it.
From this point of view the entirety of math is in the process of being discovered even though we are being met by resistance with the help of our inventions. Yes, the Devil is in the details.
I believe if I am not mistaken that Immanuel Kant said that if God did not exist then we would still be forced to invent Him.

Philosophically speaking, the 4 classic proofs of God pretty much ensure that God must exist or else you must live with an irreconcilable paradox in your own philosophy.

That God does exist and chooses to remain obscure and isolated from us just tells me He is shy.

I would not doubt that God occasionally meets some extraordinary human and then cannot resist introducing Himself to them.

Moses is the earliest example that we have any quasi historical proof of.

Then Elijah.

Then Jesus if you believe all that Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Jude, and Peter have told us about Him.

Most recently Constantine The Great.

It really has been a long time as far as we can tell.

There are probably others though that we don't know of.

I do not believe God has anything to do with math however.

Math is just a simple counting system that humans have invented to keep track of sabre toothed lions and tapirs.

Math is just a lot of definitions piled high on top of each other.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Was math invented or discovered?

Post by Arising_uk »

yiostheoy wrote:I believe if I am not mistaken that Immanuel Kant said that if God did not exist then we would still be forced to invent Him. ...
You are, it was Voltaire. What a pseud.
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