I don't. Clearly you do not understand the difference between:
If you haven't the wit to understand the above, it's not me that is a victim.
I don't. Clearly you do not understand the difference between:
If you haven't the wit to understand the above, it's not me that is a victim.
And they are as ridiculous as the buffoons who think they have proved the existence of some god.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:02 pmThere are always people who have personal reasons to want to think they've disproved the existence of God.
You are right, Mr. Stupid Khan, god can't create anything funny. Not only because he does not have a sense of humour (not one... not ONE joke in the Bible, both old and new testaments!! That's an achievement), but also because he does not exist.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:09 am
But he forgets that there are situations that God rationally CANNOT create, not because of some deficiency of divine power or ability, but simply because those things are self-contradictory and ridiculous.
Thanks Dubious, I’m glad we can agree on something.Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:12 am In spite of our disagreements on the potential abilities of human consciousness to become a cosmic power, your succinct summary in this instance also encapsulates my views in each sentence. Every religion, every god story is just a human artifact best understood as one of history's main consoling metaphors...not to to mention the power it invests in those "unique" humans who are in the business of interpreting that which lies at its center.
When you examine the gods created by man they really do appear as All-Too-Human.
That’s easy, uwot.
WTF? You need an authority to make a statement?
This what you wrote is not impossible, it is very probable. If some quantum differences had occurred in the formation of matter from the chaos after the big bang, then our universe would have reached a stable state also, but that universe would have been different from how ours manifests.seeds wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:08 pm
That’s easy, uwot.
In order to not believe in God...
(in other words, to not believe in a “guiding intelligence” presiding over the universe)
...then what an atheist “has to believe” (by default) is that blind and mindless processes have taken hold of the fabric of reality and somehow managed to fashion it (like a potter’s hands) into a context of order that defies comprehension.
That without the slightest hint of teleological impetus, the noumenal underpinning of the universe (the quantum), not only managed to self-arrange its patterns of information in such a way that would eventually lead to the manifestation of an unthinkably stable setting upon which life (life?) could then effloresce into existence,...
...but also managed to blindly and fortuitously equip that setting with every possible ingredient necessary to enable and sustain the efflorescence throughout its journey to self-awareness.
Now that’s basically what an atheist “has to believe” (again, by default) in order to not believe in a guiding intelligence.
_______
Seeds, you very eloquently wrote down what I believe, and I couldn't have done such a good job.seeds wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:08 pm That’s easy, uwot.
In order to not believe in God...
(in other words, to not believe in a “guiding intelligence” presiding over the universe)
...then what an atheist “has to believe” (by default) is that blind and mindless processes have taken hold of the fabric of reality and somehow managed to fashion it (like a potter’s hands) into a context of order that defies comprehension.
That without the slightest hint of teleological impetus, the noumenal underpinning of the universe (the quantum), not only managed to self-arrange its patterns of information in such a way that would eventually lead to the manifestation of an unthinkably stable setting upon which life (life?) could then effloresce into existence,...
...but also managed to blindly and fortuitously equip that setting with every possible ingredient necessary to enable and sustain the efflorescence throughout its journey to self-awareness.
Now that’s basically what an atheist “has to believe” (again, by default) in order to not believe in a guiding intelligence.
_______
Exactly! Atheism in this sense is a form of Nihilism in that it denies true meaning to the universe in saying that random, blind causes and selfish-genes caused all of life in its varied and obviously intelligently designed nature.seeds wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:08 pmThat’s easy, uwot.
In order to not believe in God...
(in other words, to not believe in a “guiding intelligence” presiding over the universe)
...then what an atheist “has to believe” (by default) is that blind and mindless processes have taken hold of the fabric of reality and somehow managed to fashion it (like a potter’s hands) into a context of order that defies comprehension.
That without the slightest hint of teleological impetus, the noumenal underpinning of the universe (the quantum), not only managed to self-arrange its patterns of information in such a way that would eventually lead to the manifestation of an unthinkably stable setting upon which life (life?) could then effloresce into existence,...
...but also managed to blindly and fortuitously equip that setting with every possible ingredient necessary to enable and sustain the efflorescence throughout its journey to self-awareness.
Now that’s basically what an atheist “has to believe” (again, by default) in order to not believe in a guiding intelligence.
_______
Etc, etc. Ok seeds; same question to you:
No they don't, they can believe no-one has clue and what there is is phenomena.seeds[/quote wrote: That’s easy, uwot.
In order to not believe in God...
(in other words, to not believe in a “guiding intelligence” presiding over the universe)
...then what an atheist “has to believe” (by default) is that blind and mindless processes have taken hold of the fabric of reality and somehow managed to fashion it (like a potter’s hands) into a context of order that defies comprehension.
That without the slightest hint of teleological impetus, the noumenal underpinning of the universe (the quantum), not only managed to self-arrange its patterns of information in such a way that would eventually lead to the manifestation of an unthinkably stable setting upon which life (life?) could then effloresce into existence,...
...but also managed to blindly and fortuitously equip that setting with every possible ingredient necessary to enable and sustain the efflorescence throughout its journey to self-awareness.
Now that’s basically what an atheist “has to believe” (again, by default) in order to not believe in a guiding intelligence.
_______
It only seems to YOU and your kind, Viveka, that it's a form of nihilism. Because you cuddle yourself and wrap yourself in the comfortable (to you) thought that there exists a creator who loves you and protects you, and that that very creator is a winning friend, because there is nothing and nobody bigger than him, and he is definitely on your side.
Shh, Arising_uk. Adults are talking here.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:51 am No they don't, they can believe no-one has clue and what there is is phenomena.
How are you knowing that the noumena is 'quantum'?
I'll remember that when making the newest IQ tests.-1- wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:58 amShh, Arising_uk. Adults are talking here.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:51 am No they don't, they can believe no-one has clue and what there is is phenomena.
How are you knowing that the noumena is 'quantum'?
(But I admit you are actually right: theists and atheists can believe and can believe in anything, in a myriad of different things... whoa, they say the real difference between genius and stupidity is that stupidity has no limits. And that applies to both theists and non-theists, although if you count the number of those who accept or reject the mechanism of neo-Darwinist evolution, and you make that a benchmark for the process of separating the stupid from the non-stupid, then it turns out that there are more stupid theists than atheists by orders of magnitude.)