reasonvemotion wrote:Do you believe the "intent is the same" when , for example, a man lies to a woman, telling her he loves her to get her into bed vs. a parent lies to a child about the existence of Santa Claus?
I see the intent to deceive in those cases totally and completely different.
They both have an aim or purpose, that is what intent is.
If you think your above statement lacks aim or purpose, please explain.
in·tent
noun \in-ˈtent\
Definition of INTENT
1
a : the act or fact of intending : purpose; especially : the design or purpose to commit a wrongful or criminal act <admitted wounding him with intent>
b : the state of mind with which an act is done : volition
2
: a usually clearly formulated or planned intention : aim <the director's intent>
3
a : meaning, significance
b : connotation 3
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Examples of INTENT
She thinks I'm trying to make things difficult for her, but that's not my intent.
What was the the writer's intent?
The intent of the law is to protect consumers.
He was charged with assault with intent to kill.
Webster dictionary
Here is the subtle nuance I think you are missing. Yes, both have an aim or a purpose...so what? Everything we do has an aim or purpose. It is why we get up in the morning...i.e our aim or purpose is to take a shower, brush our teeth, go to work, etc. We always have an intent. Does that mean that all intentions are the same? No. Does that mean that all intentions to deceive are the same? No. You can deceive with good intentions or with bad intentions. You're intent is either good or bad or neutral.
If you want to take a hard line such as this, saying, " You either deceive or you don't", then I would say we all deceive everyday and there is no such thing as "you either deceive or you don't". Humans deceive. When we dress ourselves our intent is to deceive. If it wasn't then we would not care how we looked. The fact is everyday, we change our appearance...which is to a degree, a type of deception. Why do we not just wake up and go to work? Why when we get home do we "slip into something more comfortable?" and shed the "costume" we wore all day? Are there clothes you would not be "caught dead in?" Why? Is it because some clothes make a person feel less than in another person's eyes? We can deceive sometimes simply to avoid ridicule.
We can have an intent to deceive in order to harm or murder, we can also have an intent to deceive in order to please or be kind. Just because we intend to deceive does not mean that our intent is the same.
Reasonvemotion: "Both are vehicles to deceive.
Either way the intent is the same.
If his concern/argument is exclusively a "critique of sincerity qua bullshit", then bullshit, is always the most dishonorable and offensive, if viewing broadly both examples, I see no difference or degree of difference in their deception. You either deceive or you don't."
AS: In the case of Sandyhook, the teacher who hid her pupils and then lied to the gunman about their whereabouts, thus saving them from certain death....was her intent to deceive "dishonorable and offensive"?
Here is a case where the gunman was being most honest in his intent and the teacher most dishonest in her intent. Which person would you say was being more "dishonorable and offensive", the honest one or the dishonest one?