Is it math or maths?

What did you say? And what did you mean by it?

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:44 pm

Terrapin Station wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Terrapin Station wrote:Is there academic philosophy you regularly read that you don't consider annoying and pretentious? Just curious what would be a couple examples of that for you.
'Academia' is full of highly-qualified idiots (Richard Dawkins said something like that), and philosophy academics are probably top of the list. There are a couple of professional philosophers I admire, but only because they aren't pretentious asses, and present arguments in a logical and unaffected way.
Right. So you mostly don't care for academic philosophy. Great forum to hang out in! :P

Who are the couple philosophers you like, by the way?
Why? So you can look down your 'academically philosophical' nose at them? And I didn't know this site prohibits thinking for yourself. I don't see Hobbes using many 'philosophisms' or quoting dusty philosophers. Is there really any point in me reading people like Ayn Rand or Simone Weil? I have nothing in common with them or their 'philosophies'. Philosophy academia is littered with previously normal, but now quite insane academics who have gone mad reading screeds and screeds of diametrically opposed viewpoints. And where does thinking end, and 'studying philosophy' begin?

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:59 pm

Terrapin Station wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Terrapin Station wrote:That doesn't help make it right.
When a person is found guilty of murder the court applies the rules of precedent to make that finding, the convict and suggest punishment. This is called the right thing to do, being the right of the judge.
Are you saying that sending a man down for life is not right?
It's not correct or incorrect. People simply have preferences about it. Preferences aren't correct or incorrect just because one feels them strongly, or just because a lot of people feel them, or just because people have felt them before.

You could be using "right" just in the sense of "I morally prefer this" though.
What is right and wrong then?
Give me an example.

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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:04 pm

Noax wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Noax wrote:Being brought up with 'math' all my life, Hobbes explanation makes total sense. Yes, it is convention in the USA, but that does not make the convention correct. It is the sort of thing that is right or wrong. I will probably not change my spoken usage of the word, but I will on the forums, just like I usually switch to metric measurements for international conversations. Metric is not more correct, but it is far less stupid.
As I recall, Americans do not say "stat", but "stats" for statistics. I wonder what you say?
I say 'stats', since 'stat' means something like ASAP.
I was agreeing with you in that post, since you seem not to have caught on to that. But for the first reason posted, not the one you are pushing now:
No, I definitely caught on. I was just extemporising. Not criticising.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Terrapin Station wrote:By virtue of what?
By virtue of the fact that "Math" is ugly.
You claim to find evolution of language to be acceptable, but only so long as it does not evolve separately from your correct version. Contractions were considered vulgar, but I do see you use them (incorrectly BTW) in your posts. So the ugly argument does not exactly fly.
Just because things evolve does not mean you can't have preferences. Change is not always good and evolution of cultural facts rests in the continued use or disuse of them. I suggest that "maths" will be preserved as a meme in the English language because it is more euphonic than math. The Maths prof in the linked vid has adopted the British way, changing her ways.

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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:08 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Just because things evolve does not mean you can't have preferences. Change is not always good and evolution of cultural facts rests in the continued use or disuse of them. I suggest that "maths" will be preserved as a meme in the English language because it is more euphonic than math. The Maths prof in the linked vid has adopted the British way, changing her ways.
The flaw in his argument is that the word hasn't evolved to 'math' it's only Americans who have deliberately altered it for no good reason. Same as they have ruined the words 'diva' and 'liberal'. That's not evolution: it's bastardisation.

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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by Terrapin Station » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:30 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Why? So you can look down your 'academically philosophical' nose at them?
I was honestly just curious who you liked.

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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by Terrapin Station » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:33 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Terrapin Station wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
When a person is found guilty of murder the court applies the rules of precedent to make that finding, the convict and suggest punishment. This is called the right thing to do, being the right of the judge.
Are you saying that sending a man down for life is not right?
It's not correct or incorrect. People simply have preferences about it. Preferences aren't correct or incorrect just because one feels them strongly, or just because a lot of people feel them, or just because people have felt them before.

You could be using "right" just in the sense of "I morally prefer this" though.
What is right and wrong then?
Give me an example.
In the sense of correct and incorrect, something that matches states of affairs.

So, for example, "The lunar surface is 19 percent magnesium" is correct, because that matches a state of affairs--namely that the lunar surface is 19 percent magenesium.

Or, "HobbesChoice feels that the word 'math' is ugly" is correct, because that matches a state of affairs--namely that you feel the word "math" is ugly.

But "The word math is ugly" isn't correct (or incorrect), because it doesn't match any state of affairs.

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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by Terrapin Station » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:35 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Same as they have ruined the words 'diva' . . .
What is the different British sense of "diva"? I'm not familiar with that one.

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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:40 pm

Terrapin Station wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Terrapin Station wrote:It's not correct or incorrect. People simply have preferences about it. Preferences aren't correct or incorrect just because one feels them strongly, or just because a lot of people feel them, or just because people have felt them before.

You could be using "right" just in the sense of "I morally prefer this" though.
What is right and wrong then?
Give me an example.
In the sense of correct and incorrect, something that matches states of affairs.

So, for example, "The lunar surface is 19 percent magnesium" is correct, because that matches a state of affairs--namely that the lunar surface is 19 percent magenesium.

Or, "HobbesChoice feels that the word 'math' is ugly" is correct, because that matches a state of affairs--namely that you feel the word "math" is ugly.

But "The word math is ugly" isn't correct (or incorrect), because it doesn't match any state of affairs.
Your first statement is not even empirically correct.
Your second contains a redundancy, as for every occasion I said that math is ugly it was me who said it.
Your third statement is false. Math is definitely ugly in the same way that Marylin Monroe was good looking, or that Hitler was naughty.
In the same way it is possible that a sample of moon dust can be found to have 19% magnesiium, another might have 19.5%, and another 18%. A generalisation you feel is correct, in every day parlance, although only an empirical average, you insist it is better than 'math is ugly'.
I submit that math is ugly is also generally true, as well as my personal opinion.

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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by Terrapin Station » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:01 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Your first statement is not even empirically correct.
It could be wrong--it's the sort of thing that can be correct or incorrect. One source that gives 19% is this:
http://www.space.com/55-earths-moon-for ... orbit.html
Your second contains a redundancy, as for every occasion I said that math is ugly it was me who said it.
I wish that made sense. ;-)
Your third statement is false. Math is definitely ugly in the same way that Marylin Monroe was good looking, or that Hitler was naughty.
None of those are correct or incorrect.
A generalisation you feel is correct, in every day parlance, although only an empirical average, you insist it is better than 'math is ugly'.
There is a fact about the percentage of magnesium on the lunar surface. There are no facts about whether something is ugly.

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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:16 pm

Terrapin Station wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:Your first statement is not even empirically correct.
It could be wrong--it's the sort of thing that can be correct or incorrect. One source that gives 19% is this:
http://www.space.com/55-earths-moon-for ... orbit.html
Your second contains a redundancy, as for every occasion I said that math is ugly it was me who said it.
I wish that made sense. ;-)

You said""HobbesChoice feels that the word 'math' is ugly". It is redundant when hobbes is saying it. I am hobbes, I was saying it. QED it is redundant. In other words you saying that; is the same as "math is ugly" when I say it. QED what you said is correct is also neither correct or incorrect.


Your third statement is false. Math is definitely ugly in the same way that Marylin Monroe was good looking, or that Hitler was naughty.
None of those are correct or incorrect.
A generalisation you feel is correct, in every day parlance, although only an empirical average, you insist it is better than 'math is ugly'.
There is a fact about the percentage of magnesium on the lunar surface. There are no facts about whether something is ugly.
.

One assay of the moon determines a mean of 19% for magnesium. No single sample would ever produce EXACTLY 19%. Therefore you are not correct. It is more generally true that Hitler is nasty; more so that a simple matter of fact that the moon is 19% Mg.

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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:22 pm

Terrapin Station wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Same as they have ruined the words 'diva' . . .
What is the different British sense of "diva"? I'm not familiar with that one.
There's no 'British sense' of diva. It's a word with a very specific meaning. It literally means 'goddess' and is SUPPOSED to be a title of great honour for an outstanding female opera singer. How that came to 'mean' 'spoilt female brat' is beyond comprehension.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by Terrapin Station » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:26 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:One assay of the moon determines a mean of 19% for magnesium. No single sample would ever produce EXACTLY 19%. Therefore you are not correct. It is more generally true that Hitler is nasty; more so that a simple matter of fact that the moon is 19% Mg.
What?? Are you reading it in some weird Aspie way or something?

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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by Terrapin Station » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:27 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Terrapin Station wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Same as they have ruined the words 'diva' . . .
What is the different British sense of "diva"? I'm not familiar with that one.
There's no 'British sense' of diva. It's a word with a very specific meaning. It literally means 'goddess' and is SUPPOSED to be a title of great honour for an outstanding female opera singer. How that came to 'mean' 'spoilt female brat' is beyond comprehension.
Not an Aspie-like response from you, too. <sigh>

What is the very specific meaning?

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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by Terrapin Station » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:27 pm

fixing

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Re: Is it math or maths?

Post by Terrapin Station » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:30 pm

"It literally means 'goddess' and is SUPPOSED to be a title of great honour for an outstanding female opera singer."

Americans use it that way, too.

The other, "haughty attitude" sense of the term is a metaphorical extension of the "outstanding female opera singer" sense--the idea is that someone is acting above everyone else, like a star who deserves special treatment as such, etc.

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