Is It Possible To Think Without Language?

What did you say? And what did you mean by it?

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creativesoul
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Re: Is It Possible To Think Without Language?

Post by creativesoul » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:00 am

Terrapin Station wrote:
creativesoul wrote:
Terrapin Station wrote:Does it make sense to say that a recording qualifies as a recording that doesn't literally contain microphones if the content of that recording is existentially contingent upon microphones?
Thoughts don't literally contain anything except correlations, associations, and/or connections drawn between objects of physiological sensory perception and/or oneself.

The analogy rightly applied would be as follows: It makes no sense whatsoever to say that a recording qualifies as a recording without microphones if the content of that recording is existentially contingent upon microphones.
So you're using "without x" to simply refer to "not existentially contingent upon x"?
Well, yeah... It's the only thing that makes sense. Otherwise, we would say that this or that is possible without X even though the very existence of this or that is contingent upon X. When A is existentially contingent upon B there can be no A if there has never been B. Without B there is no A. What sense then would it make to say that A is possible without B?


I'm using "without x" to refer to whether it contains x (well, or if it's accompanied by x). Something is with x if it contains (is accompanied by) x, and without x if it does not contain (is not accompanied by) x.
And it has led you to think/believe and/or conclude that one can think about musical scales without language simply because the thoughts are unspoken. Being unspoken is not equivalent to being without language. Without language there is no musical scales. Yet when there are scales, one can remember them without speaking. When there are no musical scales, there can be no thought about musical scales, unspoken or otherwise. When there is no language, there is no musical scales. Thus, when there is no language there is no possibility of thought about scales.

Re your comment "Thoughts don't literally contain anything except . . .," would you then say that no thought literally contains language?
I personally would reject the use of the term "contains", especially if it's being further qualified with the term "literally". On my view, literally containing something requires a container and it's contents. I really don't even like to say what I did in response... It's misleading. Thought/belief consists of correlations. All thought/belief does, and there are no exceptions spoken or otherwise. All spoken thought/belief is predication. All predication is correlation, but not the other way around. Thus, thought/belief does not require language. To quite the contrary, language requires thought/belief, if by "requires" I'm talking about existential contingency and/or necessary and sufficient conditions.

anlp_in
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Re: Is It Possible To Think Without Language?

Post by anlp_in » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:40 am

Hi, there are lot of confusion about thinking that there are need languages or not. But first point to be noted that without word how can i express and if we feel or express something then we need to give some world for that feeling. So my opinion is language is needed in some point of thinking and depend on thinking.

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Terrapin Station
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Re: Is It Possible To Think Without Language?

Post by Terrapin Station » Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:45 am

I'm just addressing one thing at first because you keep bringing it up, but you keep ignoring my comments about it, too:
creativesoul wrote:And it has led you to think/believe and/or conclude that one can think about musical scales without language simply because the thoughts are unspoken.
Why do you keep suggesting this? I keep telling you that I'm not saying anything at all about whether something is spoken/expressed or not.

If you're understanding my comments to be saying something about that, you're not at all understanding my comments.

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Terrapin Station
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Re: Is It Possible To Think Without Language?

Post by Terrapin Station » Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:47 am

anlp_in wrote:Hi, there are lot of confusion about thinking that there are need languages or not. But first point to be noted that without word how can i express and if we feel or express something then we need to give some world for that feeling. So my opinion is language is needed in some point of thinking and depend on thinking.


That's rather the idea of whether language requires thought, not if thought requires language.

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Trajk Logik
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Re: Is It Possible To Think Without Language?

Post by Trajk Logik » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:18 pm

anlp_in wrote:Hi, there are lot of confusion about thinking that there are need languages or not. But first point to be noted that without word how can i express and if we feel or express something then we need to give some world for that feeling. So my opinion is language is needed in some point of thinking and depend on thinking.
As I have already pointed out earlier in this thread, this man learned no language until late in life, yet he was able to survive for decades before learning a language. He was able to categorize his sensory impressions without language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Man_Without_Words

https://vimeo.com/76386718


Language is simply visual symbols and sounds. If you don't already have some way of hearing or seeing, then how can you learn a language? How can you categorize certain sounds as language and certain sounds as not language? It seems quite obvious that thought precedes language and language is just one form thoughts can take.

William6
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Re: Is It Possible To Think Without Language?

Post by William6 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:32 am

We can indeed think without language.However,there are certain kinds of thinking that are made possible by language.How did caveman think before developing language?Thinking process is actually considering concepts. No language is required for that.Just the concept is necessary to carry out the idea.Many artists and scientists say they do not use words to solve problems, but images.Concepts for them are collection of images.However,Language provides a set of rules that helps us organize our thoughts and construct logical meaning with our thoughts.click here

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