E-prime writing

What did you say? And what did you mean by it?

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Walker
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E-prime writing

Post by Walker » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:55 am

Writing in e-prime reveals a lot about how much we assume. It also teaches one to perceive reality in the presence of delusion.

To be, or not to be.

To not be where being once unconsciously thrived teaches something new about what to be actually means.

wtf
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Re: E-prime writing

Post by wtf » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:10 pm

Frackin' idiotic, based on my extensive knowledge of the subject gleaned from the first couple of paragraphs of this Wiki page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Prime

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: E-prime writing

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:37 pm

Walker wrote:Writing in e-prime reveals a lot about how much we assume. It also teaches one to perceive reality in the presence of delusion.

To be, or not to be.

To not be where being once unconsciously thrived teaches something new about what to be actually means.
Thanks for introducing the concept to me. But I do not think you get it.

E-prime says nothing whatever about what "to be" is: that's the point - to avoid the pretence.

Walker
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Re: E-prime writing

Post by Walker » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:14 pm

To get it you must use it. Few bother. Writing in e-prime removes the familiar pattern of using labels. It removes the unconscious labeling that people habitually rely upon when describing thoughts and sensations.

The act of writing in e-prime, in place of intellectually contemplating the act, breaks the habit of perceiving your descriptions of the world, which gets used in place of perceiving the world. Perceiving the world rather than conditioned descriptions leaves room to perceive the unique, the one-time-only.

The practice of e-prime, which in this thread and elsewhere eliminates that unconscious crutch of the outcast verb, can put one on the road of considering human beings before considering humanity.

Give it a try when you feel the urge to write down some thoughts. The experience of e-prime can actually expand awareness.

If you feel loose, post your efforts here. 8)

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Arising_uk
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Re: E-prime writing

Post by Arising_uk » Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:44 am

Walker wrote:Writing in e-prime reveals a lot about how much we assume. It also teaches one to perceive reality in the presence of delusion. ...
Thanks I like this idea and I think it ties to NLP quite nicely, which I find no surprise as Korzybski influenced Grinder.
To be, or not to be.

To not be where being once unconsciously thrived teaches something new about what to be actually means.
I think wiki gives a better translation example as you are using 'to not be', i.e. not to be.

To live or to die,
I ask myself this.

Walker
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Re: E-prime writing

Post by Walker » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:07 am

Hello. I followed your tips to links about NLP, Korzybski, and John Grinder. They provide some interesting conceptual bones for the topic.

Writing a few pages of e-prime offers the opportunity to use the mind in a mindful way. I see that you used it in your posting.

The outcast verb that has no home in this thread often exhibits an insidious tendency to insert itself in thought and expression, like a tainted and invisible enzyme. At the least, dancing around the void created by its absence improves one’s footwork and mental acuity of language during expression, which in turn affects the way one uses thought to summon language.

Regarding NLP, when I first stumbled upon e-prime in the attempt to find words for feelings, I actually experienced never-before-felt physical sensations on the inside of my skull, like neural pathways etching into the brain.

Walker
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Re: E-prime writing

Post by Walker » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:35 pm

Taken literally, minus the equvilence sought by philosophers, e-prime opens awareness to less-conditioned premises.

Consideration of The Great Divide between The Thought Realm and The Physical Realm …

Only the physical exists.
Thoughts exist.
Therefore, thoughts physically exist.

from this it follows ...

Every-thing and no-thing exist because of cause.
Every-thing existing in the physical realm,
also exists in the thought realm
under certain conditions such as, for instance,
the presence of awareness.

No-thing exists only in the thought realm.

Both every-thing exists,
and no-thing exists,
each in their own way.

Mind and senses discover physical rocks in the familiar realm of rock-things.
Mind discovers physical thought in the physical realm of thought-things.
Both realms physically exist.

Every-thing fashioned into form by man first existed as a thought discovered by man.
Walk though any city. Mind and senses discover rock-things (physical, buildings and things), that first existed as thought-things (also physical) discovered by man.

Walk through a virgin forest and consider if the physical rock-things there that cause the discovery of physical thought-things by mind, first existed as only physical thought-things.

Cell phone signals flying around all over the place … nothing but thoughts turned into voice that can turn into rocks and wars and things like that.

“You thought? Where the hell did you get that from, you thought!”

Walker
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Re: E-prime writing

Post by Walker » Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:50 am

For those who hear that they may know, in case already they do not.

For the Forgetters.

The literal how and the why of the painful death:

Long ago, in another Life, a long and slow and gentle preparation prepared the mind to question the who, which it naturally did, with guidance from a few. The questioning began as curiosity but quickly got out of hand and took a life of its own. An all consuming life that could not pause, could not run away, could not hide.

Then it happened as if by itself, effortless and quite painful. Oh yes, quite physicaly painful, like a metal helmet clamped on the noggin, shooting rays of pain deep into the brain, but only at certain times.

The who? Not this body. Rather, any Body showing anger, conflict, hatred, harsh words, evil looks ... and only in the present. Only in experience, for reflection had fallen safely to the past.

The it got out of control bad and the Body in pain, the Mind in pain, had to seek a dark and quiet place of relief. A room with windows blocked by heavy shades. But sharp ears still heard anger and dispute whispering on the wind and the pain would not end. Not until, relief. Blessed, welcome relief that washed over mind and body like cool water on the hottest day in history.

From somewhere in the home floated the etheral sounds of soothing. Sounds made by pure beauty and innocence, playing the Armstrong flute that we had given her, that she had already mastered. The clear tones washed away the pain, instantly. After so much pain that robbed reason, that robbed thought and left only the drive to end the pain, the relief arrived exactly when it had to. Blessed healing rest. Everything focused, and I knew. I fell back, mind able to grasp only the beauty, ears reaching out like a blistered desert hand reaching for water.

Later, after the sun had disappeared another time, another body came at me out of habit, all hurt and harsh and mean. Without thought, with only survival as the method, this body did what it had to do to stop the instant pain. Spontaneous unconditional warmth and love rose up and surrounded us with a fragrance like roses, a fragrance of pure love. I felt my face smile but not in derision, not twisted by evil and mockery, but in purity the love. The other instantly knew and felt confusion, for this summoned the ancient memory.

Arms opened to comfort the confusion, the hurt quickly fading, the cause of the hurt already forgotten. Some little thing of no consequence had caused the other to hurt. Some imagined thing caused by yours truly. Arms opened wide to embrace her and laughter bubbled into her over the stupid and the ignorance we had just left behind. The more one laughed, the more the other laughed. Silly fun, laughing at nothing like that.

Then time dissolved. Night became day and day became night. Harshness became slave to love, as did I. In time the body learned to integrate so once again it could walk in the evil of the world, and the good of the world, stupid mind tagging along and sometimes forgetting until the body once again did what it must do.

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Green
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Re: E-prime writing

Post by Green » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:57 am

E-prime is challenging, I like it Walker.

Walker
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Re: E-prime writing

Post by Walker » Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:01 pm

Not too complicated. I heard that e-prime purists refrain from even implications of “to be,” as in the first sentence here that carries the implication: It is not too complicated. I see no need for such e-prime fundamentalism, for it delays the end purpose of surrendering to the form. Drop that verb in all its guises and drop a conceptual crutch. Good practice.

Walker
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Re: E-prime writing

Post by Walker » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:52 am

Your tuition loans at work:
https://spectrumcenter.umich.edu/articl ... y-michigan

Coddling the known weakens the young scholars. Banning all pronouns, and also banning to be, compromises thought until mind transcends the handicap and makes it a strength, the mind strengthening in censorship like an athlete who transcends early limitations. Transcending the known comes after college. Colleges should teach the known and downplay self-expression until something worth expressing gets processed beyond first thought. Begin with knowns in those remedial courses to welcome the unprepared, before encouraging the unworthy to rewrite the language with creative pronouns.

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Terrapin Station
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Re: E-prime writing

Post by Terrapin Station » Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:34 pm

I don't know if I get it, especially if you're writing in e-prime in this thread, Walker.

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Terrapin Station
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Re: E-prime writing

Post by Terrapin Station » Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:40 pm

I looked for examples online. Here were a couple suggested by one site:
"Sarah is a dental hygienist" might become "Sarah cleans teeth from nine to five".
What's the difference, semantically, between "Sarah cleans teeth from nine to five" and "Sarah is someone (or is a person) who cleans teeth from nine to five"?
"Your dress is awful" might become "I don't like your dress".
"I don't like your dress" is how you should always be reading "Your dress is awful." In other words, semantically, "I don't like your dress" and "Your dress is awful" are the same.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: E-prime writing

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:55 pm

Walker wrote:
To be, or not to be..
E-prime translation; "not"

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TSBU
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Re: E-prime writing

Post by TSBU » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:36 pm

"Sarah is a dental hygienist" might become "Sarah cleans teeth from nine to five".
What's the difference, semantically, between "Sarah cleans teeth from nine to five" and "Sarah is someone (or is a person) who cleans teeth from nine to five"?
In the second sentence, you are defining Sarah, in the first sentence, you are saying something that doesn't belongs to the concept Sarah. Natural language is ambiguous, I know a lot of computer jokes XD, but you'll see it better with this, maybe: "John make stupid things" vs "John is stupid". If you never allow the "is", John can "be" doing stupid things his own life, but you'll never see him as a stupid.

As a start. I see it like a stupid thing if it's maded for the whole life. It's impossible to think without "is" (You must define concepts, you can't know if you can't ask "what is the meaning of...?", it looks like the thoughts of a tortured frustrated person, I've tried to do that in some arguments XD. But you can't think without proper concepts, you can't think without something that "is" in your mind. Of course, things that "are" may disappear and transform in your mind because your knowledge can be wrong), and you should know that you don't agree with everybody, you don't have the same concepts (John can be smart in other eyes, and Sarah can be beautifull), but that's not a problem in language XD.

Now, the "to be or not to be" translation, is a piece of shit. It doesn't mean "to live or not to live", that's absurd XD. It's deeper than that shit. Is precisely about this, is to think with "is" or not, to have real thoughts, or give up your own mind, what you see as "yourself". At least that's what I've always thought about that. "to be or not to be... honest" for example. Many people ask themselves what are they. Many people try to develop themselves... personality is something to talk a lot and it's not the thread for it, but well, the sentence is about that, to have or not to have personality. (By the way, it's a waste of time to say all the time "in my eyes").

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