Lying to deceive another and save a life is good. Lying to defend oneself to kill another is wrong.Beauty wrote:Lying to deceive others is wrong, lying to defend oneself is not, I believe. However, if a way could be found as to not have to lie at all, that would be the best I believe.
~ Why I Invented Language ~
- Hobbes' Choice
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
The OP is working from a false presupposition. Every example of lying involves a deliberate misrepresentation of what the speaker thinks/believes. Doing that requires language. Since it is the case that lying requires language, it cannot be the case that language was invented as a means to lie.
That's more than enough to effectively dismiss what the OP claims.
That's more than enough to effectively dismiss what the OP claims.
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
Actually lying does not have to involve spoken langauge. Chimps are masters of deceit.creativesoul wrote:The OP is working from a false presupposition. Every example of lying involves a deliberate misrepresentation of what the speaker thinks/believes. Doing that requires language. Since it is the case that lying requires language, it cannot be the case that language was invented as a means to lie.
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
I wouldn't equate deceitfulness with lying.Hobbes' Choice wrote:Actually lying does not have to involve spoken langauge. Chimps are masters of deceit.creativesoul wrote:The OP is working from a false presupposition. Every example of lying involves a deliberate misrepresentation of what the speaker thinks/believes. Doing that requires language. Since it is the case that lying requires language, it cannot be the case that language was invented as a means to lie.
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
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Think I see where our paths diverge...I consider ANY thought; ANY spoken word to be an estrangement of reality.
Thus, we lie whenever we speak.
Human beings cannot tell the truth.
You believe, that lying is a deliberate act.
...so like, it's not a lie if you believe it.
Pretty fucked-up.
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Think I see where our paths diverge...I consider ANY thought; ANY spoken word to be an estrangement of reality.
Thus, we lie whenever we speak.
Human beings cannot tell the truth.
You believe, that lying is a deliberate act.
...so like, it's not a lie if you believe it.
Pretty fucked-up.
.
- Arising_uk
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
Is this a lie?Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
Think I see where our paths diverge...I consider ANY thought; ANY spoken word to be an estrangement of reality.
Thus, we lie whenever we speak.
And this?Human beings cannot tell the truth.
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
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Yes. They are ALL lies...
...kind-a just went over that.
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Yes. They are ALL lies...
...kind-a just went over that.
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
Odd because every person I've ever met would associate the two and assert that lying entails deceit.creativesoul wrote:I wouldn't equate deceitfulness with lying.Hobbes' Choice wrote:Actually lying does not have to involve spoken langauge. Chimps are masters of deceit.creativesoul wrote:The OP is working from a false presupposition. Every example of lying involves a deliberate misrepresentation of what the speaker thinks/believes. Doing that requires language. Since it is the case that lying requires language, it cannot be the case that language was invented as a means to lie.
Indicating that deceit predates formal language. So the idea that lying post dates language is not a great argument against the rather more idiotic asserting that the raison d'etre of language was lying, which proposition is without evidence or merit on its own terms.
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
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So, it's not a lie unless you say it's a lie...
...pretty fucked-up...
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So, it's not a lie unless you say it's a lie...
...pretty fucked-up...
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
I think you might want to brush up on your comprehension skills billy boy.Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
So, it's not a lie unless you say it's a lie...
...pretty fucked-up...
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
So this is a lie then?Bill Wiltrack wrote:.Yes. They are ALL lies...
...kind-a just went over that..
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
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YES. As my definition!
All words; ALL thoughts are an estrangement of reality. [presses lips, squints eyes, breathes out...]
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YES. As my definition!
All words; ALL thoughts are an estrangement of reality. [presses lips, squints eyes, breathes out...]
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
.... and FARTS.Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
YES. As my definition!
All words; ALL thoughts are an estrangement of reality. [presses lips, squints eyes, breathes out...]
.
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
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............................................Been referring to them as a hobbe choice.
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............................................Been referring to them as a hobbe choice.
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Re: ~ Why I Invented Language ~
So you're lying about this then?Bill Wiltrack wrote:.YES. As my definition!
All words; ALL thoughts are an estrangement of reality. [presses lips, squints eyes, breathes out...].