Philosophy Now Forum

"Manners are of more importance than laws.... Manners are what vex or soothe, corrupt or purify, exalt or debase, barbarize or refine us, by a constant, steady, uniform, insensible operation, like that of the air we breathe in."
Edmund Burke (1729–1797), Irish philosopher, statesman. Letters on a Regicide Peace, letter 1 (1796).

Yesterday, I was walking with Jack on the path that leads to the upper level of the dog park. http://www.stpaul.gov/index.aspx?NID=2066 Three young people, a couple and a guy, had stopped on the path and were talking (the couple was descending, the guy was ascending). At the park, strangers often stop and talk, usually about their dogs. These folks were strangers.

As I approached, the guy was talking to the couple. Suddenly, in mid-sentence, he blew his nose: He closed one nostril and violently expelled a chunk from the other one! Being about ten feet away, I almost lost my breakfast. Then he resumed talking. There was silence from the three of us.

In the past, I learned that this was a brutish act, an act that was never done by a gentleman, and certainly not behavior that a man engages in in the presence of a woman!

His knowledge of manners was obviously lacking.

As a citizen and daily visitor at the dog park, should I have addressed the guy?

If so, what should I have said?

If not, why not?

What would you have done.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Arkwright ... ?sk=photos

I would have done just what you did...kept silent. I believe it is bad manners to tell and adult he is exhibiting bad manners...unless you are a spouse or someone close to the individual...and even then it should be approached with kindness.

Bad manners are not a fault of the person...it is the fault of society for not teaching etiquette in elementary school. In fact I think it would behoove us all, young and old, to have a refresher course on manners.

I would have walked up to the snot king in a friendly way, made charming conversation, and then casually exploded a huge wad of snot near his feet, smiling, smiling, smiling, all the while.

If he kept smiling too, then he's an honest man, and I'd have bid him a fine day. If he'd complained, I'd have aimed the next one at his forehead.

Unless of course, he's bigger than me, then ignore the above.

Hi Tom,

T:Where the actor's bad manners results from ignorance, I believe that the actor should be educated discretely. The public will be the beneficiaries of the actor's new good manners.

AS:Then how come you didn't educate him discretely (good word)? I would not have been able to educate anyone discretely because I am not good with using language to convey exactly what I mean. I always seem to unintentionally say the wrong thing!

T: Blaming should depend on the actor's knowledge and intent.

AS: But if we can't know the actor's knowledge and intent then isn't it good manners to give the benefit of the doubt?

Typist,

I don't understand what is so great about honesty. Hitler was honest about his feelings towards Jews and I don't think he did society any favors. I don't buy into this "honesty is the best policy" stuff. There are times when a little tact is in order. Honesty works if it is for honorable reasons...but what is honorable about not respecting another individual?

Hi Tom and Typist,

I opened my mail this morning to this joke sent by a friend. I thought it was fitting for this thread.


Recently I received a parrot as a gift.

The parrot had a bad attitude and an even worse vocabulary.

Every word out of the bird's mouth was rude, obnoxious and laced with profanity.

I tried and tried to change the bird's attitude by consistently saying only polite words, playing soft music and anything else I could think of to "clean up" the bird's vocabulary.

Finally, I was fed up and I yelled at the parrot. The parrot yelled back.

I shook the parrot and the parrot got angrier and even ruder.

So, in desperation, I threw up my hands, grabbed the bird and put him in the freezer.

For a few minutes the parrot squawked and kicked and screamed.

Then suddenly there was total quiet. Not a peep was heard for over a minute.

Fearing that I'd hurt the parrot, I quickly opened the door to the freezer.

The parrot calmly stepped out onto my outstretched arms and said,

"I believe I may have offended you with my rude language and actions. I'm sincerely remorseful for my inappropriate transgressions and I fully intend to do everything I can to correct my rude and unforgivable behavior."

I was stunned at the change in the bird's attitude.

As I was about to ask the parrot what had made such a dramatic change in his behavior, the bird continued,

"May I ask what the turkey did?"



Happy Thanksgiving!

Its probably already been said in other ways but, your reaction seems very elitist. Everyone does this very understandable action in different ways, some discretely into hankies, some with fingers and mouths and some with explosive blasts of breath and the outdoors.
Surely you could have excused him, and would it not have been good manners to direct the bloke to a bin or another appropriate place where he may engage in the action of clearing his nostril's of unwanted debris to his heart's content.

Hi Riman,

I don't think it's elitist to be respectful of others and want the same respect in return. Okay, so your pet peeve isn't nostril clearing in public...you're pet peeve might be something else. Wouldn't it be nice is someone cared enough about you to abstain from that behavior while in your presence? For example, let's say someone close to you has an embarrassing habit of talking loudly about embarrassing things around people you know from work or school and you'd rather they not. Wouldn't it be nice if you requested they stop and they did because they cared more for your feelings than the behavior?

I think this is what manners are all about. It's about caring about each other.

Some people are offended by snot.

I'm more offended by the sentiment "one rule for me, and another rule for everybody else".

So, if the man is willing to accept from others what he wants others to accept from him, he gets a pass from me.

Hi artisticsolution,

sorry quick just note as i'm off to bed.

I do appreciate your point but and I think that caring for others as you would expect to be cared your self, is probably as good a basis for manners as anything, However it is elitist to expect everyone to share your interpretation of it as you seem to do.
I suppose a question might be, 'what makes the dog park such a place where such an act is bad manners?'

Hi rimen,

In a world full of people I don't expect everyone to share my interpretation...it's just that I think kindness goes along way...elitist or not. I think most people enjoy being respected and treated with dignity. It's just that we can't all agree as to what that entails. Therefore I think we should at least try to be on our best behavior as much as we possibly can. Not because I say so...but because logically that is the only way to receive respect. How is it possible for you to receive respect and kindness from me if I don't care about your feelings or boundaries?

I don't know much about you...but I hardly think you would be too happy if I walked over to you and made a point of letting one rip right under your nose. My point is...isn't it a small thing for me to hold back and control my bodily functions so that I might not offend you?

I don't understand the need to assert and demand the power and freedom over another when it is such a small thing that it could just as easily not be done. What's the biggie?

Certainly all will agree with the quotation above from Burke.

I was taught that if you were conversing with another, and you had to sneeze or blow your nose, it was good manners to turn away from the other person and then sneeze or blow into a hanky.

Someone in society needs to set reasonable standards. I would much prefer that person to be an Edmund Burke than a Bill Wiltrack.

If this teaching is elitist, so be it.
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hand·ker·chief   [hang-ker-chif, -cheef] Show IPA
noun
1.
a small piece of linen, silk, or other fabric, usually square, and used especially for wiping one's nose, eyes, face, etc., or for decorative purposes.
2.
a neckerchief or kerchief.

Thank you, Tom