Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:54 pm

Greta wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:16 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:58 pm
Greta wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:51 pm

I am not confused in the least. I am surprised that your school included no homophobic bullying. I worked in OH&S for a few years was an anti-bullying activist for ten years, speaking to hundreds of people about their situations, mostly being bullied at work but was also approached by many worried about school bullying.

Homophobic bullying has long been rife in schools and it should be noted that the suicide rates for young queer people are multiple times greater than that of their peers. While sexuality and gender are not the same, homophobic bullies do not differentiate.
How the fuck would anyone know they were 'queer'? Were there eight year old boys having sex in your playgrounds?
Any boy who does not measure up to apparent masculine ideals will tend to have his sexuality questioned. Surely you know this?
What age exactly are you talking about? How about we just let children be children.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:25 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:36 pm
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:I actually don't know that distance alone is why they opted against it in this particular instance, but I know it has been an issue in the past. I would have liked to have seen all non-lethal options exhausted first, however futile, though the 2-5 seconds it can take for a shot taser to reach full incapacitation makes that distance vital when it leaves the person in a potentially volatile state for those 2-5 seconds. ...
Are you taking the piss? Our police deal with knife-wielding citizens all the time and kill none of them. What is going on in your country?
Police in the UK don't really have many options to. It would be interesting to see what protocol your police call for in such a case, because admittedly I'm not aware.

Anyway, I'm just pointing out how your solution may not be the optimal one given certain conditions. It puts the cops lives in further danger to the aggressor who made the decision to make the threat towards them. And I guess you could argue that's what they need to do as cops.
WTF!? Except that BoobTube is full of your police force tasering all and sundry for no reason whatsoever.
I think it'd be wiser if we made statistics off of actual studies, and not off of viral videos.
Eh!? But they are not civilians are they, they are supposed to be a trained police force with the aim of 'serve and protect' I thought? From over here they look like an out of control militia a la any third world nation.
They're not necessarily normal civilians defending themselves from a direct threat of violence, but they aren't on-duty cops responding to a call either. It's a case of a campus cop being approached by a man with a knife. I think accusations of brutality would be easier to make had the cops been the instigators. But it doesn't seem like they were. Ideally the situation could have been handled better looking back on it now, with everything indicating he wasn't planning to really do anything, but I think it may also be unreasonable to expect such a hesitation of self-defense to a completely unwarranted threat.
Fair enough. So what is going wrong with your system?
I think it's a lot of the laws that are in place, and not necessarily the police themselves. There are a lot of agencies which get into the business of things they just shouldn't, like the DEA, but I'd file that into the former and blame those establishing those agencies. There are a lot of other factors that come into play, like the fact that our black market for weapons is so much larger, and obviously things like our very massive population size, which raises the stakes and leads to further police shootings. Interestingly enough, a point that is not brought up nearly enough, is that only do our police kill more people than most other leading nations, but the police themselves die more often as well. I think this is pretty testimonial to the fact that the issue is not simply police brutality.
And the problem is?
I mean, they can call themselves whatever they like. Obviously, no one should be bullying them. I'm just not going to acknowledge or respect your sex or gender that has no basis in reality or science.

I have no problems with the traditional trans-gendered people, who are actually working to transition to the other sex with surgeries and hormonal therapy as best they can. But the sort of bloggers you see on tumblr that make no real effort to change their appearance and expect me to go out of my way use their ridiculous made-up pronouns, are not people who I take seriously.
Last edited by Sir-Sister-of-Suck on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:32 am

Greta wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:19 pm
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:15 pm
Greta wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:03 pm


It MUST be a contributing factor. Consider how boys of that ilk fared when you were at school. When at school (a couple of years ago, give or take four decades) what I witnessed of the treatment of queer boys, it could only be described at persistent attempts at destruction. It was shocking and frightening to see, let alone be the victim. So, if one of those kids kills himself, being treated that way MUST be a contributing factor, and is frequently the main factor.
I was home-schooled, so I don't believe I could say from experience. But I don't doubt homophobia is still a big problem in school. Regardless, I don't think the issues people like him face in society can be so easily swept under the same label as "homophobia". I have known plenty of gay people who specifically don't like trans-gendered individuals, the "queer-gendered" ones even more so, and are flustered by a lot of the people who cluster them into the same group. In reality, the type of social problems trans people face and the ones that gay people face are very different, and sometimes they even perpetuate each other.

I'm sure he was bullied when he was younger, and that contributed to much of his suicidal ill, but blaming it on "homophobia" makes about as much sense as blaming it on racism, and just discombobulates the actual discussion.
You have not had friends in tears talk to you about killing themselves due to homophobic bullying. Trust me, for queer kids, school homophobia is very often the main game for them - it can consume their entire world. I would bet a million bucks that homophobic bullying was a primary driver behind the kid's suicide.
Well no, my point is that this kid isn't a "homo" anything. He was a self-identifying 'non-binary' individual which doesn't really have anything to do with homosexuality in and of itself - or really, even typical transgendered people who would assumable be effected by the same 'homophobes' - so I still don't know how you could conclude that he was victim of 'homophobia'.

tbieter
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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by tbieter » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:59 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:32 am
Greta wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:19 pm
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:15 pm
I was home-schooled, so I don't believe I could say from experience. But I don't doubt homophobia is still a big problem in school. Regardless, I don't think the issues people like him face in society can be so easily swept under the same label as "homophobia". I have known plenty of gay people who specifically don't like trans-gendered individuals, the "queer-gendered" ones even more so, and are flustered by a lot of the people who cluster them into the same group. In reality, the type of social problems trans people face and the ones that gay people face are very different, and sometimes they even perpetuate each other.

I'm sure he was bullied when he was younger, and that contributed to much of his suicidal ill, but blaming it on "homophobia" makes about as much sense as blaming it on racism, and just discombobulates the actual discussion.
You have not had friends in tears talk to you about killing themselves due to homophobic bullying. Trust me, for queer kids, school homophobia is very often the main game for them - it can consume their entire world. I would bet a million bucks that homophobic bullying was a primary driver behind the kid's suicide. In Middle school, we had a student,
Richard Micklas, who was effeminate. He was abused verbally, so he mostly kept to himself.
For some reason he liked me however, and he would approach me when he could do so safely. On occasion in the lunch room, I would call him over to join me and my friends.
They treated him decently and with the respect that I had asked for. I've often thought of Richard and have wondered how he did in life
Well no, my point is that this kid isn't a "homo" anything. He was a self-identifying 'non-binary' individual which doesn't really have anything to do with homosexuality in and of itself - or really, even typical transgendered people who would assumable be effected by the same 'homophobes' - so I still don't know how you could conclude that he was victim of 'homophobia'.

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Greta
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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by Greta » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:43 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:32 am
Well no, my point is that this kid isn't a "homo" anything. He was a self-identifying 'non-binary' individual which doesn't really have anything to do with homosexuality in and of itself - or really, even typical transgendered people who would assumable be effected by the same 'homophobes' - so I still don't know how you could conclude that he was victim of 'homophobia'.
I understand what you are trying to say, but can you understand my point - that homophobic bullies do not differentiate between "self identifying non binary individuals" and "faggots". To them it is exactly the same thing.

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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:03 am

Greta wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:43 am
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:32 am
Well no, my point is that this kid isn't a "homo" anything. He was a self-identifying 'non-binary' individual which doesn't really have anything to do with homosexuality in and of itself - or really, even typical transgendered people who would assumable be effected by the same 'homophobes' - so I still don't know how you could conclude that he was victim of 'homophobia'.
I understand what you are trying to say, but can you understand my point - that homophobic bullies do not differentiate between "self identifying non binary individuals" and "faggots". To them it is exactly the same thing. people.
I understand that a lot of the bigotry they face stems from the same sort of person, but a lot of it doesn't, and more importantly it doesn't mean it stems from the same thing. I've seen a lot of hatred for trans people, especially of this type, coming from gay people. In fact, I've seen a lot of the hatred of this type of trans-gendered person, coming from the more traditional, 'binary' trans-gendered people.

I just think the way you generalized it under such a blanket "homophobia" is a pretty short-sighted view of the bigger picture. It would be like blaming gay bigotry on racism, because a lot of the southern-conservative people who are racist are also anti-gay.

But I do see your point. Originally, I wasn't sure if you understood what a "non binary" person was, and maybe you thought it just meant he was gay or something. Regardless, I think my clarification is an important one to note.

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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by tbieter » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:17 pm

The school identified the victim as Scout Schultz, 21, a fourth-year engineering student from Lilburn, Georgia, who police said was armed with a knife. Schultz, president of Georgia Tech's Pride Alliance, identified as non-binary and intersex and preferred to be referred to with they/them gender pronouns,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Scout_Schultz

https://www.thecatholicthing.org/

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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:59 pm

Typical fascist katholik.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:40 pm

tbieter wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:58 pm
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/26790 ... greenfield
This guy was really troubled. What could be the causes? Political activism? Sexual dysfunction? Science studies?
He should have been tased. The gun was excessive force for a knife wielding perp, unless he'd actually killed someone already. But even then he could have been mentally unstable, and not deserving of death. Determinism would seem to dictate as much, no? Many cops want to hurt people, which is why they chose the profession. To give license to kill, is pretty sick, unless ones life is surely in jeopardy.

In the US, one that has a "conceal and carry permit" is commanded to retreat from any situation where their life might be threatened until such time that his retreat is no longer possible. It should be the same for cops! Every cop should be armed with a taser/tranquilizer to be used anytime anything less that a projectile weapon is the threat.

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Greta
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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by Greta » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:12 pm

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:03 am
Greta wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:43 am
I understand what you are trying to say, but can you understand my point - that homophobic bullies do not differentiate between "self identifying non binary individuals" and "faggots". To them it is exactly the same thing. people.
I understand that a lot of the bigotry they face stems from the same sort of person, but a lot of it doesn't, and more importantly it doesn't mean it stems from the same thing. I've seen a lot of hatred for trans people, especially of this type, coming from gay people. In fact, I've seen a lot of the hatred of this type of trans-gendered person, coming from the more traditional, 'binary' trans-gendered people.

I just think the way you generalized it under such a blanket "homophobia" is a pretty short-sighted view of the bigger picture. It would be like blaming gay bigotry on racism, because a lot of the southern-conservative people who are racist are also anti-gay.
That tells me that transpeople don't only cop it from both straights and gays, but also each other.

It's bloody stupid. We are all just people.

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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:16 am

You're the one who seems to love the labels. Just saying.

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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by RickLewis » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:05 am

I vaguely remember that at my first university, UMIST, there were a couple of bored security guards who spent the night dozing in a little hut by the main entrance to the campus, and occasionally wandered around campus with a torch. This was a city centre campus, after all. Nobody would have dreamed of calling them "campus cops". They certainly did not have firearms. If they had had firearms, I'm pretty certain they wouldn't have used them in such a situation. If they had used them, they would probably still be in jail today.

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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by tbieter » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:55 pm

RickLewis wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:05 am
I vaguely remember that at my first university, UMIST, there were a couple of bored security guards who spent the night dozing in a little hut by the main entrance to the campus, and occasionally wandered around campus with a torch. This was a city centre campus, after all. Nobody would have dreamed of calling them "campus cops". They certainly did not have firearms. If they had had firearms, I'm pretty certain they wouldn't have used them in such a situation. If they had used them, they would probably still be in jail today.
You probably attended school in times that were more orderly, and less criminal, than today. US society is fragmenting. Constraints on behavior like religion, custom, convention, education et cet are disappearing. The campus is just like the city. The cop needs more force to back up his authority in the US.

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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by Arising_uk » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:26 pm

tbieter wrote:The cop needs more force to back up his authority in the US.
If shooting a mentally-ill person armed with a closed penknife is authority then your police have none.

Your country is insane.
Last edited by Arising_uk on Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Suicide by Cop by Troubled Activist

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:21 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:26 pm
tbieter wrote:The cop needs more force to back up his authority in the US.
I shooting a mentally-ill person armed with a closed penknife is authority then your police have none.

Your country is insane.
That's because its people are collectively insane. I have no idea why, but I think it's a combination of the Constitution i.e. Second Amendment, paranoia (media driven), religion as practiced by morons, junk food, forcing children to worship a piece of cloth every morning and constantly bombarding them with the idea that their country is 'the greatest', and Noah Webster's idiocratic 'dictionary'.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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