How can existence know it exists without repeating itself?
....who or what is going to know ONE ? unless there is another one to compare it with
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How can existence know it exists without repeating itself?
What curtain?
If dontaskme asked the questions from a far more open perspective, then the answers to the questions could be far easier to understand and accept.
dontaskme, although every person shares the same open Mind, which I have said numerous times already, which is the exact same as dontaskme's 'same open space of OPENNESS', NOT ALL points of views differ. And, I have NEVER said that we all will HAVE TO agree, and I will NEVER say that. What I have said, and have said numerous times already, but dontaskme still does NOT recognize this, 'It is what we ALL agree with' that is truly important. Contrary to what dontaskme believes, I am here to find 'what It is that we ALL agree with', so (some) one is here to agree. Finding agreement creates peace. Pushing one's own view as being true, right, and/or correct causes disagreement and/or conflict. Therefore, if a person prefers peace, then being here to find what it is that we agree on could obviously be seen to be the better or more right way to proceed.Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:55 am Ken just so you know...Dam knows you know all this stuff, and she knows you are not wrong in what you know. She knows you have developed deep understanding of the nondual self.
But your attempt to try and compare your knowing with other peoples knowing is why you seem to end up in the most outrageous tangles I've ever witnessed.
This is so tangle free if you just learn to loosen up and allow yourself to realise that although each and every one of us share the same open space of OPENESS, our view points will always differ, it's not that we will all have to agree, no, no one is here to agree, there is here just different views of the same ONE space.
The pixels of the whole picture are the ALL ...THAT can never change.
...but the ALL cannot be known all at once, it's ever changing depending on which view is taken.
The All is known to exist only because of it's parts...the parts don't exist separate from the whole.
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The word curtain is used as a reference. It's a pointer pointing to when consciousness comes online.
That is correct, it's the same with any sentient creature that has no language, the I only exists in the language, the knowledge. As known.
Consciousness does not exist except as the concept informs, ...formless information...in form.
That's right, because only until a question arises ''who am I'' can the answer come.
I ask clarifying questions to those who write as if they know what they are talking about to show what the actual truth is. Thank you.Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:26 amThe word curtain is used as a reference. It's a pointer pointing to when consciousness comes online.
That is correct, it's the same with any sentient creature that has no language, the I only exists in the language, the knowledge. As known.
Anything known must have a source, that source is the unknown knowing known.
This cannot be explained any other way Ken. THIS IS ..the unknown knowing known.
Consciousness does not exist except as the concept informs, ...formless information...in form.
That's right, because only until a question arises ''who am I'' can the answer come.
There can only be one question ''who am I''? ..and when that is answered, there will be no need for any more questions. The who will have revealed itself, and in doing so, all our answers will be known to exist already contained within the who.
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Well, hopefully, that's what I'm trying to do.ken wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:49 amIf dontaskme asked the questions from a far more open perspective, then the answers to the questions could be far easier to understand and accept.
What I mean by repeating itself, is thus...ken wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:49 am1. Through a sensory being, which evolves within or through a physical body, eventually Existence discovers, and thus then KNOWS, It exists. I can I will have to wait until dontaskme explains what is meant by 'without repeating itself' before I can answer the first question more thoroughly.
Yes. Every part can recognise it is integrally inseparable from the whole even when seemingly apart.
There is no other because there is only the one appearing as the other, try the mirror analogy. Or the sun analogy...the sun that cast no shadow is the castor of all shadows. The mirror can only know and see itself in its reflection. The reflection is there only because the mirror is there, if there was no mirror, there could be no reflection. A reflection CANNOT exist without a mirror. BUT, a mirror CAN exist without a reflection, simply because for any reflection to be known, there had to be a mirror there in the FIRST PLACE for that knowing to become known.
I agree.ken wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:00 am
dontaskme, although every person shares the same open Mind, which I have said numerous times already, which is the exact same as dontaskme's 'same open space of OPENNESS', NOT ALL points of views differ. And, I have NEVER said that we all will HAVE TO agree, and I will NEVER say that. What I have said, and have said numerous times already, but dontaskme still does NOT recognize this, 'It is what we ALL agree with' that is truly important. Contrary to what dontaskme believes, I am here to find 'what It is that we ALL agree with', so (some) one is here to agree. Finding agreement creates peace. Pushing one's own view as being true, right, and/or correct causes disagreement and/or conflict. Therefore, if a person prefers peace, then being here to find what it is that we agree on could obviously be seen to be the better or more right way to proceed.
Mirrors can NOT know these things. A mirror does not have a brain.Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:53 amWell, hopefully, that's what I'm trying to do.
What I mean by repeating itself, is thus...ken wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:49 am1. Through a sensory being, which evolves within or through a physical body, eventually Existence discovers, and thus then KNOWS, It exists. I can I will have to wait until dontaskme explains what is meant by 'without repeating itself' before I can answer the first question more thoroughly.
Imagine an empty mirror...how does the mirror that is reflective in nature reflecting itself everywhere, how can it know it is a reflector if it cannot see what it reflects?
Do you really think/believe a mirror knows itself?
To Me, this is a much better example of what a mirror does, and how it works.
Not really identical to the mirror, but I know what you are getting at here.
BUT, the luminous I can see ALL things, including Its Self. It does NOT need nor use a mirror.
Are you somewhat suggesting/agreeing here that if and when ALL the parts of the One are in agreement, then are acting as A collective whole and thus are working together as One, ALL the answers that each inseparable but seemingly individual part comes to and is in agreement with each other of ALL the other parts, then that agreed upon answer, or those agreed upon answers, could or may provide an answer to what that One Self IS? Finally proving that the KNOWER can actually KNOW Its Self?
But there are others. There is ken and there is dontaskme, for example. There are different bodies with different set of thoughts within them. These thoughts, or people, are things are different individuals, although they may be inseparable, that only think they know what is right. Being able to step back and look at One's self or these selves is what allows the discovery of what they truly are to be found. This "stepping back" from One's self also shows how people are NOT what they think they are.
But this is a very narrow view of things. The 'sun' only casts all shadows on earth, and a few other planets and objects like the moon. The sun does NOT cast all shadows. The sun also casts a shadow but from the human eyes, and from the human being perspective, they can not and do not see this shadow. The sun casts a shadow from other brighter suns, or stars.
Again, do you really think/believe mirrors can know them selves?
Still water makes a reflection.
Are you sure?
Or a still body of water could suffice.
An intelligent enough species is fundamental for a God-like Consciousness to become aware of Its Self, and Its surroundings, the Universe, so things are always becoming clearer.
But the whole point of what I was saying was, It is NOT the same One when there is disagreement or when there is agreement to disagree. This is what human beings do them selves. The real One does NOT do this. The One will agree that there is disagreement, among human beings, but will NOT agree to disagree. The One that IS made up of the agreement of ALL things KNOWS what causes human beings to disagree and thus KNOWS the reason WHY human beings disagree, and therefore will NOT agree to that disagreeing. Only when human beings WANT to truly look at themselves can ALL of this then be discovered and learned.Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:37 amI agree.ken wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:00 am
dontaskme, although every person shares the same open Mind, which I have said numerous times already, which is the exact same as dontaskme's 'same open space of OPENNESS', NOT ALL points of views differ. And, I have NEVER said that we all will HAVE TO agree, and I will NEVER say that. What I have said, and have said numerous times already, but dontaskme still does NOT recognize this, 'It is what we ALL agree with' that is truly important. Contrary to what dontaskme believes, I am here to find 'what It is that we ALL agree with', so (some) one is here to agree. Finding agreement creates peace. Pushing one's own view as being true, right, and/or correct causes disagreement and/or conflict. Therefore, if a person prefers peace, then being here to find what it is that we agree on could obviously be seen to be the better or more right way to proceed.
And so long as we can ALL agree to the idea that it is the same ONE agreeing, or disagreeing, or, and agreeing to disagree, or, and disagreeing to agree...Then I think we can ALL sleep peacefully in our beds tonight.
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The wild geese do not intend to cast their reflection,
A reflection and it's reflector are interdependent.
Agreed.
Okay...thanks.ken wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:42 pmHowever, for the real Self, Consciousness, the Universe, or God, Itself, to KNOW Its Self, there first had to be some sort of intelligent enough species there, in the first place, to be some thing for the One true Self to be able to reflect into and recognize Its Self. So, there is some thing in what you are saying here, which I will delve deeper and further into at a later stage.
Well it is the right place if there are others also willing to talk about the same knowledge, and there are a few here already doing that.ken wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:42 pmAn intelligent enough species is fundamental for a God-like Consciousness to become aware of Its Self, and Its surroundings, the Universe, so things are always becoming clearer.
dontaskme sometimes makes things clear. It is just a shame when I ask for clarification, dontaskme seems to confuse things more. There is no right nor wrong way of explaining. I just KNOW that I could do a lot better than I have previously. I just work on learning how to make that explaining more succinct, which I will do at some stage. I know that this forum is NOT the place for that.
Yes, I agree totally with that.
ken wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:51 pm
But the whole point of what I was saying was, It is NOT the same One when there is disagreement or when there is agreement to disagree. This is what human beings do them selves. The real One does NOT do this. The One will agree that there is disagreement, among human beings, but will NOT agree to disagree. The One that IS made up of the agreement of ALL things KNOWS what causes human beings to disagree and thus KNOWS the reason WHY human beings disagree, and therefore will NOT agree to that disagreeing. Only when human beings WANT to truly look at themselves can ALL of this then be discovered and learned.
Agreed Ken.ken wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:51 pmAre you somewhat suggesting/agreeing here that if and when ALL the parts of the One are in agreement, then are acting as A collective whole and thus are working together as One, ALL the answers that each inseparable but seemingly individual part comes to and is in agreement with each other of ALL the other parts, then that agreed upon answer, or those agreed upon answers, could or may provide an answer to what that One Self IS? Finally proving that the KNOWER can actually KNOW Its Self?
If each conscious part could recognise what it is and what its integral part is and they all come together to form One Consciousness, then that is the Consciousness that is aware of ALL of Its parts, and also would be the One that IS aware of Its Self. That is Awareness, It Self.
I was referring to the idea that the sun is the luminous I and it's shadow is dependant upon it for a shadow has no light of it's own, shadow being a metaphor for human.ken wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:51 pmBut this is a very narrow view of things. The 'sun' only casts all shadows on earth, and a few other planets and objects like the moon. The sun does NOT cast all shadows. The sun also casts a shadow but from the human eyes, and from the human being perspective, they can not and do not see this shadow. The sun casts a shadow from other brighter suns, or stars.
Yes, I totally understand what you've said here. I agree.ken wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:51 pmBUT, the luminous I can see ALL things, including Its Self. It does NOT need nor use a mirror.
WHY NOT just look at what the "luminos" I IS, instead of using metaphorical symbols for It?
I found looking at what IS BEFORE assuming any thing is a far better way to being able to discover ALL things.
I definitely did not answer the questions you were asking for the first two. But I was aware that those answers were not what you askedken wrote:First off did you notice you did NOT answer the actual questions I posed for clarity? You answered what you THOUGHT I was asking youken wrote:
Who says that the Universe and God are NOT One and the same
Does the word Universe and the word God mean the same then
How do you know that the Universe is not a conscious entity
Where exactly would one find this so called conscious entity
Have you ever wondered how the conscious entities within the Universe got their consciousness
The natural order required for consciousness is physics followed by chemistry followed by biology