another pointless thread...existential grousing

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henry quirk
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another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by henry quirk »

I call myself an atheist, but, honestly, I don't know what I am.

With absolutely no evidence that 'anyone' is there to justify it, I've spent many a desperate moment asking for assistance. Today, for example, my kid is having significant problems at school. Being the odd man out, he's targeted, bullied, and made to feel 'less than' and 'wrong'.

This stuff weighs heavy on me.

Then, this morning, I read about an Ohio eight-year old who hanged himself after being bullied. Like mine, this was a decent kid who just wanted to be accepted; a kid, like mine, with difficulty focusing and controlling impulses.

Which brings me to this...

If God (a self-directing, intelligent, supranatural being responsible for designing, creating and sustaining reality) exists, has the power to intercede in the world, and has the investment (the interest) in the world that some folks claim, why is my ten year suffering? Why did an eight-year find it necessary to kill himself?

I don't expect my kid to be 'saved' or 'spared'. No, in my desperate pleadings I simply ask that his will be bolstered so that he can bear the miseries.

Me, I do all I can with him, and with the school, to ensure he doesn't get any more of a raw deal than he has already.

Now, mebbe God 'is' holdin' up His end of the deal, mebbe God has a plan, mebbe, for mine, things will get better.

But, it would one ballsy son of a bitch to suggest such things to the parents of that eight-year old.
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Re: another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by bobevenson »

The problem isn't God or the school, it's the government, operating public schools without having to face the discipline of a free market.
marjoram_blues
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Re: another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by marjoram_blues »

henry - you know it's not pointless and it sure as hell ain't grousing to talk about real life concerns.
Glad you opted to talk about it, rather than keeping it to yourself. That takes strength.
Both of you are suffering to some extent, and, if I know you at all, you will be doing your very utmost to lessen any miseries.

I don't have any ready answers; each situation is different. I wouldn't expect anyone to open up fully on a forum such as this. Hope you both find someone you can trust so that you can talk things through.
All the very best.
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Re: another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by marjoram_blues »

bobevenson wrote:The problem isn't God or the school, it's the government, operating public schools without having to face the discipline of a free market.
How did/do you cope with bullying, Bob ?
ForCruxSake
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Re: another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by ForCruxSake »

henry quirk wrote:I call myself an atheist, but, honestly, I don't know what I am.

With absolutely no evidence that 'anyone' is there to justify it, I've spent many a desperate moment asking for assistance. Today, for example, my kid is having significant problems at school. Being the odd man out, he's targeted, bullied, and made to feel 'less than' and 'wrong'.

This stuff weighs heavy on me.

Then, this morning, I read about an Ohio eight-year old who hanged himself after being bullied. Like mine, this was a decent kid who just wanted to be accepted; a kid, like mine, with difficulty focusing and controlling impulses.

Which brings me to this...

If God (a self-directing, intelligent, supranatural being responsible for designing, creating and sustaining reality) exists, has the power to intercede in the world, and has the investment (the interest) in the world that some folks claim, why is my ten year suffering? Why did an eight-year find it necessary to kill himself?

I don't expect my kid to be 'saved' or 'spared'. No, in my desperate pleadings I simply ask that his will be bolstered so that he can bear the miseries.

Me, I do all I can with him, and with the school, to ensure he doesn't get any more of a raw deal than he has already.

Now, mebbe God 'is' holdin' up His end of the deal, mebbe God has a plan, mebbe, for mine, things will get better.

But, it would one ballsy son of a bitch to suggest such things to the parents of that eight-year old.
All I can say is that this will pass, and hopefully make him stronger, as it's rare that things go as far south as they did for the Ohio boy (no pun intended, as poor as it is). A few people here confess to having been being bullied at school. I was, at secondary school, and my son was, at primary school. He is much happier at secondary school.

You can even hope that what makes him different now, will make his fortune later. It worked for me. I'm hoping the same for my 14 year old, who no one cares to, or dares to, bother now.

When we turn to a god, we're not even sure exists, it's when we are at our lowest ebb, unable to do anything ourselves, and capable of only asking for assistance, or the 'magic of a miracle', as I call it. But you can do something. No matter how small, your efforts will aid your boy. Just by being there for him, you're doing something. The same argument is usually made for God.

However, you are real, he can see you, feel you and turn to you knowing you really are there for him, no matter hopeless things seem, now.

My son just came home from school and read this: his advice to your son, is to "learn a martial art"! (I would add that any physical activity helps develop not just physical strength, but psychological strength. My son was not very physically adept, at your son's age. He had poor core strength and his dad's shonky legs! In the last two years, he has developed a physique and stamina I never knew he could develop, as he resisted doing anything 'sporty' at your son's age, no matter how much I was willing to encourage or finance it. It was one of the difficulties that set him apart from boys his age. He's lucky to be at a school with amazing gym facilities. We're lucky in that respect. At a different school, he may well have fared worse.

I hope this provides you with more than hope. All this will pass and if you're lucky, this misfortune may be the making of one amazing individual as he grows into manhood.
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Re: another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by Walker »

henry quirk wrote:I call myself an atheist, but, honestly, I don't know what I am.

With absolutely no evidence that 'anyone' is there to justify it, I've spent many a desperate moment asking for assistance. Today, for example, my kid is having significant problems at school. Being the odd man out, he's targeted, bullied, and made to feel 'less than' and 'wrong'.

This stuff weighs heavy on me.

Then, this morning, I read about an Ohio eight-year old who hanged himself after being bullied. Like mine, this was a decent kid who just wanted to be accepted; a kid, like mine, with difficulty focusing and controlling impulses.

Which brings me to this...

If God (a self-directing, intelligent, supranatural being responsible for designing, creating and sustaining reality) exists, has the power to intercede in the world, and has the investment (the interest) in the world that some folks claim, why is my ten year suffering? Why did an eight-year find it necessary to kill himself?

I don't expect my kid to be 'saved' or 'spared'. No, in my desperate pleadings I simply ask that his will be bolstered so that he can bear the miseries.

Me, I do all I can with him, and with the school, to ensure he doesn't get any more of a raw deal than he has already.

Now, mebbe God 'is' holdin' up His end of the deal, mebbe God has a plan, mebbe, for mine, things will get better.

But, it would one ballsy son of a bitch to suggest such things to the parents of that eight-year old.
Get him out. Rearrange your life to do it if you must. Do whatever it takes. Sacrifice. Because you see the problem to this extent, don’t hesitate. I’ve known people who have paid high prices for private schooling and they couldn’t afford it. It’s worth it. A proper overall education without being terrorized is important. Everything should go to that, that is the future you leave. I could give you more reasons if you need more, but a private school is small, and the teachers are onto that clique crap because they have a higher vision of education, and they nip it in the bud. Small private schools have a totally different atmosphere that equips the child for a strong and complete life.
ForCruxSake
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Re: another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by ForCruxSake »

Walker wrote:Get him out. Rearrange your life to do it if you must. Do whatever it takes. Sacrifice. Because you see the problem to this extent, don’t hesitate. I’ve known people who have paid high prices for private schooling and they couldn’t afford it. It’s worth it. A proper overall education without being terrorized is important. Everything should go to that, that is the future you leave. I could give you more reasons if you need more, but a private school is small, and the teachers are onto that clique crap because they have a higher vision of education, and they nip it in the bud. Small private schools have a totally different atmosphere that equips the child for a strong and complete life.
Henry has given us no idea why his son is being bullied, or if his family can afford a fee paying school. Even if they could, there's no guarantee the bullying would stop, despite the interventions. Henry has already pointed out school involvement in what's going on, and yet it continues. You think a fee paying school would choose to lose three fee payers, that are bullying, over the one that is being bullied? It would employ similar methods to most schools that try to 'contain' bullying. State schools have nothing to lose evicting bullies, but things would have to be pretty bad for them to expel. It could be little better whether you are paying, or not, plus you would have the financial burden.

You may as well tell Henry to sell his house, or move to an area where any other school is deemed better. Or just to switch to any other school for that matter, as his son would have a fresh start elsewhere.

Bullying takes place at private schools as much as at state schools. When I was younger, it was worse at fee paying schools. Children weren't so important then, and the parents, having invested so much already, would rarely pull their children out unless the circumstances were dire.
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Re: another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by bobevenson »

marjoram_blues wrote:
bobevenson wrote:The problem isn't God or the school, it's the government, operating public schools without having to face the discipline of a free market.
How did/do you cope with bullying, Bob ?
As a prophet, I just accept it. But the reason children suffer bullying in school is due 100% to the government.
Philosophy Explorer
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Re: another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

bobevenson wrote:
marjoram_blues wrote:
bobevenson wrote:The problem isn't God or the school, it's the government, operating public schools without having to face the discipline of a free market.
How did/do you cope with bullying, Bob ?
As a prophet, I just accept it. But the reason children suffer bullying in school is due 100% to the government.
How do you connect the dots???

PhilX
Walker
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Re: another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by Walker »

ForCruxSake wrote:
Walker wrote:Get him out. Rearrange your life to do it if you must. Do whatever it takes. Sacrifice. Because you see the problem to this extent, don’t hesitate. I’ve known people who have paid high prices for private schooling and they couldn’t afford it. It’s worth it. A proper overall education without being terrorized is important. Everything should go to that, that is the future you leave. I could give you more reasons if you need more, but a private school is small, and the teachers are onto that clique crap because they have a higher vision of education, and they nip it in the bud. Small private schools have a totally different atmosphere that equips the child for a strong and complete life.
Henry has given us no idea why his son is being bullied, or if his family can afford a fee paying school. Even if they could, there's no guarantee the bullying would stop, despite the interventions. Henry has already pointed out school involvement in what's going on, and yet it continues. You think a fee paying school would choose to lose three fee payers, that are bullying, over the one that is being bullied? It would employ similar methods to most schools that try to 'contain' bullying. State schools have nothing to lose evicting bullies, but things would have to be pretty bad for them to expel. It could be little better whether you are paying, or not, plus you would have the financial burden.

You may as well tell Henry to sell his house, or move to an area where any other school is deemed better. Or just to switch to any other school for that matter, as his son would have a fresh start elsewhere.

Bullying takes place at private schools as much as at state schools. When I was younger, it was worse at fee paying schools. Children weren't so important then, and the parents, having invested so much already, would rarely pull their children out unless the circumstances were dire.
This covers all your objections and contingencies.

Rearrange your life to do it if you must. Do whatever it takes. Sacrifice. Because you see the problem to this extent, don’t hesitate.

If it includes selling the house and changing careers, then so be it. There is no greater reason to do those things.

This isn't theory. A good private school doesn't put up with the crap in a government school.

Private schools often have financial assistance programs. I've seen both sides and not from a hundred years ago, like you. :wink:

If your kid is bullied in a private school, you will get results. They want your money, they want future students.
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Re: another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

henry quirk wrote:I call myself an atheist, but, honestly, I don't know what I am.

With absolutely no evidence that 'anyone' is there to justify it, I've spent many a desperate moment asking for assistance. Today, for example, my kid is having significant problems at school. Being the odd man out, he's targeted, bullied, and made to feel 'less than' and 'wrong'.

This stuff weighs heavy on me.

Then, this morning, I read about an Ohio eight-year old who hanged himself after being bullied. Like mine, this was a decent kid who just wanted to be accepted; a kid, like mine, with difficulty focusing and controlling impulses.

Which brings me to this...

If God (a self-directing, intelligent, supranatural being responsible for designing, creating and sustaining reality) exists, has the power to intercede in the world, and has the investment (the interest) in the world that some folks claim, why is my ten year suffering? Why did an eight-year find it necessary to kill himself?

I don't expect my kid to be 'saved' or 'spared'. No, in my desperate pleadings I simply ask that his will be bolstered so that he can bear the miseries.

Me, I do all I can with him, and with the school, to ensure he doesn't get any more of a raw deal than he has already.

Now, mebbe God 'is' holdin' up His end of the deal, mebbe God has a plan, mebbe, for mine, things will get better.

But, it would one ballsy son of a bitch to suggest such things to the parents of that eight-year old.
I wonder how the PC would explain all the school suicides. They seem to think their meddling has ended bullying and turned schools into warm fuzzy love-fests. Schools don't do anything about it now either, thanks to the PC. They have adopted some crap called the 'no blame policy' which actually means 'blame the victim policy'. I'm very sorry to hear about your son. It's torture for a parent when that happens because there's nothing they can really do to help. Changing schools rarely helps either because children can sniff out vulnerability like hungry vultures.
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Re: another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Walker wrote:
ForCruxSake wrote:
Walker wrote:Get him out. Rearrange your life to do it if you must. Do whatever it takes. Sacrifice. Because you see the problem to this extent, don’t hesitate. I’ve known people who have paid high prices for private schooling and they couldn’t afford it. It’s worth it. A proper overall education without being terrorized is important. Everything should go to that, that is the future you leave. I could give you more reasons if you need more, but a private school is small, and the teachers are onto that clique crap because they have a higher vision of education, and they nip it in the bud. Small private schools have a totally different atmosphere that equips the child for a strong and complete life.
Henry has given us no idea why his son is being bullied, or if his family can afford a fee paying school. Even if they could, there's no guarantee the bullying would stop, despite the interventions. Henry has already pointed out school involvement in what's going on, and yet it continues. You think a fee paying school would choose to lose three fee payers, that are bullying, over the one that is being bullied? It would employ similar methods to most schools that try to 'contain' bullying. State schools have nothing to lose evicting bullies, but things would have to be pretty bad for them to expel. It could be little better whether you are paying, or not, plus you would have the financial burden.

You may as well tell Henry to sell his house, or move to an area where any other school is deemed better. Or just to switch to any other school for that matter, as his son would have a fresh start elsewhere.

Bullying takes place at private schools as much as at state schools. When I was younger, it was worse at fee paying schools. Children weren't so important then, and the parents, having invested so much already, would rarely pull their children out unless the circumstances were dire.
This covers all your objections and contingencies.

Rearrange your life to do it if you must. Do whatever it takes. Sacrifice. Because you see the problem to this extent, don’t hesitate.

If it includes selling the house and changing careers, then so be it. There is no greater reason to do those things.

This isn't theory. A good private school doesn't put up with the crap in a government school.

Private schools often have financial assistance programs. I've seen both sides and not from a hundred years ago, like you. :wink:

If your kid is bullied in a private school, you will get results. They want your money, they want future students.
I didn't suggest going private because private schools in the US cost a fortune. Unless Henry is a billionaire.
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Re: another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by thedoc »

Henry, I hope your nephew gets through this phase OK, martial arts training will do several things, most importantly it will give him the confidence to let go of any fear he might have. When I was in HS I wasn't picked on mainly because I wasn't afraid of anyone, and that is odd because I was one of the lightest kids in the class. There were a lot of farm boys in my school and I worked on my uncles farm helping to bail hay and straw, so I wasn't weak, just light. When I was teaching, one of the boys had just started learning Karate, we used to say he know just enough to really get himself hurt. But he got into a confrontation and dropped back into a stance that the other boy recognized and the other boy backed down saying "That Karate stuff is crazy, but it works." lucky for my student that it didn't go any further. I have 2 daughters and they both went to the same school, the older was a Goody-2-shoe and got along with everyone, the younger was a bit of a rebel. This was shortly after Columbine and there were all kind of rules about what you could not bring to school. She made a purse out of an old pant leg and closed up the bottom with safety pins, safety pins were against the rules, but she was never confronted about it. She did get in trouble and she told me to just let her take detention because it gave her time to do her homework and then she didn't have to worry about it when she got home, she had detention almost every day. I spent a lot of time on the phone with the vice-principal and at one point he threatened to put her on a Sat. work detail So I asked if he was going to pick her up and bring her home, otherwise forget it because she isn't going to be there. I spent a lot of time visiting with the superintendent talking about my daughter. She did the last year home schooled, she paid for a correspondence HS course and got her diploma. I have an 11 year old grandson and so far he doesn't seem to be having much trouble, but my younger daughter is his mother and I don't think the school or any bullies stand much chance against her.
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Re: another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by Walker »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:I didn't suggest going private because private schools in the US cost a fortune. Unless Henry is a billionaire.
13K-20K

Plenty of non-billionaire kids go to private schools.

You've bought into some odd paradigm of what's important.
Last edited by Walker on Fri May 12, 2017 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: another pointless thread...existential grousing

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

That wouldn't work now because they aren't allowed to get physical (and then you would have the parents of the victim having to face lawsuits from bully parents and their bully demonspawn). Children have to 'share', overseen by a 'moderator', and then hug it out. Of course the bully or bullies just smirk and go back to what they were doing before the hugging and had-shaking session. Forcing children to hug or shake hands is a form of abuse in itself.
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