What makes you puke?

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Greta
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by Greta »

uwot wrote:
Greta wrote:I like the poetry of geology and biology tussling for supremacy.
Me too, it's a new toy to play with, so thanks. It reminds me of someone saying that grass had been very smart by allying itself with mankind, wheat and rice particularly, but any that could be grazed by flocks and herds. It's batshit crazy, but then what in this universe isn't?
(Ya know? I do wish these religious nuts would stop telling me I should be more open minded.)
It appears that you are protesting the use of metaphor on the forum, demanding that my expression remain literal at all times. After all, I know you are surely too bright to to take my comment above literally. One would need the mentality of a six year-old to miss the metaphorical content.

All I did was consider the Earth's surface changing over time as an interaction rather than separating the dynamics into the usual geological and biological silos, with only specialised aspects of the relationship ignored, eg. autotrophs, abiogenisis, extinctions, natural disasters. Why do you believe my perspective to be invalid?
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Greta
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by Greta »

ForCruxSake wrote:
Greta wrote:Our appliances (aside from Windows 10)...
:lol:
I'd go back to Windows 7 except for the security side. A huge backward step in some respects and they still haven't fixed the search function that is looking more and more pathetic compared with other search advances in the last decade. I can't record my music ATM because the W10 won't recognise my recording devices. I'd already spent hundreds on tech support getting it to just recognise normal headphones. Further, W10 took away the old Live mail program and foisted this horrid iteration of the Outlook program on us that 1) demanded that I give MS all of my Google personal information in a data grab with the deliberately misleading message "Your Gmail information is incomplete" - legal phishing and 2) is so poorly designed that, if you need to move ten messages from one folder to another you can't grab and drop, but move each file one at a time with multiple clicks. My guess is they are trying to phase it out get you to use the browser where you can ignore their advertising.

There are other gripes. Windows 10 makes me puke.
ForCruxSake wrote:What if they reach a point of such great intelligence, with organic engineering, they manage to recreate us?!!
There's plenty of smart people who think this is possible, and few (cavalier IMO) ones who think we are already a holographic re-creation. I'm not convinced. It's one thing to simulate, another for a simulation to be sentient.

It seems to me, though, that human bodies will have ever more synthetic content. That leads us to the thought experiment of replacing each neuron with an exact synthetic copy until a synthetic brain is created. Not that "created" would be the right word, the dynamic being more akin to the grandfather's axe paradox where the handle and blade have been replaced and no original material of the axe remains.

If synthetic (geological, non biological [that's for uwot's benefit]) sentience is possible then the next steps would be refinement. Fewer parts, increased energy access, greater connectedness. As always, we will be driven by the need to survive the changing conditions presented to us by nature, including each other.
commonsense
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by commonsense »

ken wrote:
commonsense wrote:
ken wrote:
Your questions are;


What the actual thing that is better and replaces humankind can not been seen with the eyes. But what will be seen and is much better is the behavior of human beings. Human bodies will still have the same recognizable shape, roughly, but human beings unique individual and invisible set of thoughts, which control what the human body does, will be replaced. Human beings will be doing progressively far more of what is right, or better, rather than doing what is right and wrong, which they each do now. Human beings will have learned how the Mind and the brain work, and in doing so are able to use the one collective Mind instead of using their own individual thoughts and feelings to control how their bodies behave, or more correctly, misbehaves. Using the Mind, which is always truly open and knows what is right and wrong, will replace the wrong thinking that comes from the brain. The way humans being think, and see (understand), things is the actual better thing that replaces humankind's bad and wrong behavior with only good and right behavior.



The entity that replaces humankind is still just humankind, but this time human beings will be reacting and doing with and for each other as one entity, instead of reacting and doing against each other. There will still obviously be unique, different and separate individual human beings, each with their own unique, different and separate individual personality, or identity. But ALL will be behaving in a way that is doing for the better or good of ALL as One entity, (namely God, for lack of a better word now), instead of misbehaving in a way that is only doing for a few and thus separating entities as is being done nowadays.

The knowing that comes from the one collective Mind already knows that it is wrong to pollute and destroy the "home" that we are living in, or on. So, God (the new entity and replacement of human beings) already knows how to live sustainably. God will continue doing some things humankind does now. This replaced entity will live with the creature comforts that human beings have already dreamed up, invented, designed, and created, which do not pollute and destroy the home, the environment, the earth, and the Universe. This entity will stop doing what does pollute and destroys sustainability. The Entity pursues and promotes sustainability. God sustains Life.




Human beings, in the newly forming God-like scenario, are much more relaxed and contented, but of course ALL the same emotions and feelings will arise, as they do now. Feelings, and thoughts for that matter, are just looked at from an entirely different perspective. Not just emotions are controlled but also are thoughts. Instead of allowing emotions and wrong thinking to control the human body like what happens nowadays, the Mind, which KNOWS what is right, has full and total control over everything.



Hope is always here, without hope there would not be many human beings left here. People can live with depression. But depression, without hope, is suicidal.

The only universal formula needed will create change. Change will cause a replacement. The replacement will create what we ALL want, desire, and hope for. That is a truly peaceful life in harmony with one another.



Once human beings get past what is holding them back from enlightenment, at this very moment, there is no obstacle at all. The obstacle to enlightenment is dishonesty, closed-mindedness, (as it is currently called), and a stubbornness to not allow change.



The replacement thing - God - handles those "hazards" the same way It always has. It does not stop telling and showing what is right and wrong in Life. But who really is open enough to hear and see this? God keeps inspiring, enlightening, and revealing the Truth about Life. God is in no hurry so just waits patiently for those to become truly Honest, Open, and Want to change, for the better. When a person is truly Wanting to change for the better, Honest, and Open, then ALL is revealed and the Truth is understood and known. When more and more human beings begin to become more and more open, then humankind, itself, progresses naturally past the "hazards", over the obstacles, and moves along the evolutionary path of Life and steps into the replacement phase, and thus moves more and more into the God-being, and thus stepping up into living in God-like ways of being in peace and harmony here on earth - as it is in heaven, nirvana, utopia, et cetera.

There are Nine Steps to Heaven. Each step could be seen as a hazard, but once each one is overcome the next step shows why the last one existed, as well as revealing more and more the higher you climb.



They just disappear like all the old and replaced ways of humankind.



Can anything prevent an evolutionary change from occurring?

Has any being not changed and not been "replaced" over time?

Could there be just one Being, which is continually changing, evolving, or morphing into Its own Self (or Being)? In other words, could Consciousness, Itself, have always just be coming into Its Self? With human beings just being a part of this evolutionary change? When human beings are able to answer the question, Who am 'I'?, and thus have become fully and truly Self Conscious Beings, or Consciousness, Itself. Only then they will have progressed past, and replaced, humankind and come into Being the true God/Being, which was always going to come-to-Be, or come-into-Being, anyway.
It is appropriate that you employed multiple names for one thing: God, Entity, Mind, Being, Consciousness, God/Being and Self. I agree with the validity of each of them. I would like to add “ “ to the list. This word is said to be unpronounceable, as the Name of God is unspeakable by mortals. I think it would be fair to say that I have painted the future of humanity as a machine-driven Armageddon, while you have expressed something more akin to a humanistic utopian enlightenment. I much prefer your forecast to mine. In fact, although my original position was that sentient AI robots would eventually supplant the human race, I am now more convinced than ever that such a catastrophe will not happen. Indeed I have formulated the counterargument that belies my earlier stand, but it is trivial in comparison to the power of “ “ to bring about an enlightenment such as you have described.
uwot
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by uwot »

Greta wrote:
uwot wrote:
Greta wrote:I like the poetry of geology and biology tussling for supremacy.
Me too, it's a new toy to play with, so thanks. It reminds me of someone saying that grass had been very smart by allying itself with mankind, wheat and rice particularly, but any that could be grazed by flocks and herds. It's batshit crazy, but then what in this universe isn't?
(Ya know? I do wish these religious nuts would stop telling me I should be more open minded.)
It appears that you are protesting the use of metaphor on the forum, demanding that my expression remain literal at all times. After all, I know you are surely too bright to to take my comment above literally. One would need the mentality of a six year-old to miss the metaphorical content.
Something weird is going on on this forum. Everyone is cranky with everyone, maybe that is just a reflection of the political world we find ourselves in. I'm sorry if I gave the impression of having the mentality of a six year old (although you may have a point).
Greta wrote:All I did was consider the Earth's surface changing over time as an interaction rather than separating the dynamics into the usual geological and biological silos, with only specialised aspects of the relationship ignored, eg. autotrophs, abiogenisis, extinctions, natural disasters. Why do you believe my perspective to be invalid?
I don't. I genuinely think that ideas like those above, while crazy on first appearance, are at least fun to consider, and might even have some truth. I do tend to treat ideas as six year olds treat new toys, in that I will hold one up, play with it for a while, check if there's anything else in the box and move on to the next one. I don't think I am too unusual in doing that, though clearly there are some who will only play with their favourite teddy bear. (Not you personally, which shouldn't need stating, but these are crazy times.)
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Greta
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by Greta »

uwot wrote:
Greta wrote:
uwot wrote:Me too, it's a new toy to play with, so thanks. It reminds me of someone saying that grass had been very smart by allying itself with mankind, wheat and rice particularly, but any that could be grazed by flocks and herds. It's batshit crazy, but then what in this universe isn't?
(Ya know? I do wish these religious nuts would stop telling me I should be more open minded.)
It appears that you are protesting the use of metaphor on the forum, demanding that my expression remain literal at all times. After all, I know you are surely too bright to to take my comment above literally. One would need the mentality of a six year-old to miss the metaphorical content.
Something weird is going on on this forum. Everyone is cranky with everyone, maybe that is just a reflection of the political world we find ourselves in. I'm sorry if I gave the impression of having the mentality of a six year old (although you may have a point).
I was struck by the crankiness of this forum years ago when I first came here after some people from my other forum suggested it. Has it become more cranky?

You have to admit that you were being patronising, making out that I was claiming agency to natural processes.
uwot wrote:
Greta wrote:All I did was consider the Earth's surface changing over time as an interaction rather than separating the dynamics into the usual geological and biological silos, with only specialised aspects of the relationship ignored, eg. autotrophs, abiogenisis, extinctions, natural disasters. Why do you believe my perspective to be invalid?
I don't. I genuinely think that ideas like those above, while crazy on first appearance, are at least fun to consider, and might even have some truth. I do tend to treat ideas as six year olds treat new toys, in that I will hold one up, play with it for a while, check if there's anything else in the box and move on to the next one. I don't think I am too unusual in doing that, though clearly there are some who will only play with their favourite teddy bear. (Not you personally, which shouldn't need stating, but these are crazy times.)
It's not even a matter of "having some truth" - it's what has happened. The Earth's surface really did metamorphose in that way over time, with autotrophs seemingly converting nonliving material into living material until, one would imagine, that an autotroph in unusual conditions mistook one of its brethren for food and that happened to worked out just fine, leading to all that we have today. Now, increasingly, intelligent matter on the Earth's surface is turning less intelligent and non-intelligent matter into itself. Now the intelligence networks include non-biological structures and there's increased melding between biological and non-organic structures.

There is nothing controversial there either. It's all known, but not a common angle. Usually we think of ourselves as an outside destructive agent rather than an intrinsic constructive agent.
uwot
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by uwot »

Greta wrote:I was struck by the crankiness of this forum years ago when I first came here after some people from my other forum suggested it. Has it become more cranky?
When I first joined, this place was littered with racists and paedophiles, so there was a lot of crankiness. Once they were cleared up, everything settled down, and while there have always been the members who are so bonkers they explode at anything, generally, they are tolerated as village idiots often are. Them aside, things were reasonably cordial until a bunch of religious nuts joined, who think nothing of insulting and misrepresenting other members. At least the racists and paedophiles had the intellectual honesty to recognise when their rationalisations were demolished and foxtrot oscar.
Greta wrote:You have to admit that you were being patronising, making out that I was claiming agency to natural processes.
I didn't mean to imply that. Even if I had, I hope I wouldn't be patronising about it. I keep saying that I am prepared to entertain any hypothesis that isn't demonstrably false. I quote Faraday at the beginning of a portrait of reality http://willijbouwman.blogspot.co.uk , because I really mean it.
Greta wrote:It's not even a matter of "having some truth" - it's what has happened. The Earth's surface really did metamorphose in that way over time, with autotrophs seemingly converting nonliving material into living material until, one would imagine, that an autotroph in unusual conditions mistook one of its brethren for food and that happened to worked out just fine, leading to all that we have today. Now, increasingly, intelligent matter on the Earth's surface is turning less intelligent and non-intelligent matter into itself. Now the intelligence networks include non-biological structures and there's increased melding between biological and non-organic structures.

There is nothing controversial there either. It's all known, but not a common angle. Usually we think of ourselves as an outside destructive agent rather than an intrinsic constructive agent.
It's not my field, I didn't even know the word autotroph, so thank you, and without meaning to sound patronising, it is an incredible story.
surreptitious57
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Greta wrote:
I look at this forum and see a gaggle of nobodies pointlessly trying to tear each other down. The hostility anger fragility misrepresentations and quickness to freak out over nothing continues to amaze me
This is a lowly populated forum Greta so relatively well behaved as a consequence. And what you characterise as anger and hostility I see instead
as mere differences of opinion. Let me take Mr Can as an example he is a pussycat and about as offensive as rice pudding. And I actually find him quite amusing. He is an absolute joy to debate because he never listens to a damn thing any one has to say unless he agrees with it. Also why are you amazed about any ones behaviour on the forum. This type of engagement is common on the internet. One should not be surprised by it at all
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Greta
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by Greta »

uwot wrote:I didn't mean to imply that. Even if I had, I hope I wouldn't be patronising about it. I keep saying that I am prepared to entertain any hypothesis that isn't demonstrably false. I quote Faraday at the beginning of a portrait of reality http://willijbouwman.blogspot.co.uk , because I really mean it.
Sorry, I must have misinterpreted. What were you trying to get across with the post that got me cranky? I felt like I was being lumped in with theists and others promoting speculative nature with too much confidence.
uwot wrote:
Greta wrote:It's not even a matter of "having some truth" - it's what has happened. The Earth's surface really did metamorphose in that way over time, with autotrophs seemingly converting nonliving material into living material until, one would imagine, that an autotroph in unusual conditions mistook one of its brethren for food and that happened to worked out just fine, leading to all that we have today. Now, increasingly, intelligent matter on the Earth's surface is turning less intelligent and non-intelligent matter into itself. Now the intelligence networks include non-biological structures and there's increased melding between biological and non-organic structures.

There is nothing controversial there either. It's all known, but not a common angle. Usually we think of ourselves as an outside destructive agent rather than an intrinsic constructive agent.
It's not my field, I didn't even know the word autotroph, so thank you, and without meaning to sound patronising, it is an incredible story.
I think you will find this talk as interesting as I found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElMqwgkXguw
ken
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by ken »

commonsense wrote:
ken wrote:
commonsense wrote:
It is appropriate that you employed multiple names for one thing: God, Entity, Mind, Being, Consciousness, God/Being and Self. I agree with the validity of each of them. I would like to add “ “ to the list. This word is said to be unpronounceable, as the Name of God is unspeakable by mortals. I think it would be fair to say that I have painted the future of humanity as a machine-driven Armageddon, while you have expressed something more akin to a humanistic utopian enlightenment. I much prefer your forecast to mine. In fact, although my original position was that sentient AI robots would eventually supplant the human race, I am now more convinced than ever that such a catastrophe will not happen. Indeed I have formulated the counterargument that belies my earlier stand, but it is trivial in comparison to the power of “ “ to bring about an enlightenment such as you have described.
Thanks for your response. More thanks for being open.
surreptitious57
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Humanistic utopian enlightenment is never going to happen

The only places one finds utopia is in a novel or a dictionary
uwot
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by uwot »

Greta wrote:I think you will find this talk as interesting as I found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElMqwgkXguw
I did. Thank you.
ken
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote:Humanistic utopian enlightenment is never going to happen

The only places one finds utopia is in a novel or a dictionary
But a humanistic utopian enlightenment has already happened.
surreptitious57
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by surreptitious57 »


You will have no problem providing evidence for it then
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Greta
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by Greta »

uwot wrote:
Greta wrote:I think you will find this talk as interesting as I found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElMqwgkXguw
I did. Thank you.
If you have some good ones, by all means feel free to share.
ken
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by ken »

surreptitious57 wrote:
You will have no problem providing evidence for it then
I certainly do not have a problem providing evidence. However, finding people who are open to it is another matter.
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