What makes you puke?

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ken
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by ken »

Greta wrote:
ken wrote:
Greta wrote: Most of the stuff we talk about isn't as important as paying bills, maintaining health and relationships, being mindful of consumption, and other vital practical everyday things, it's just more interesting. And that's why I am here :)
I find most of the stuff talked about here is far more important than any of the everyday things.
I take your point but there's a lot more deep (and influential) material out there than the stuff generally spoken about online, here and elsewhere. Yet we are here. It's easier on the brain :)
I am looking for the deepest (and meaningfulest) material where it can also be discussed. Do you have any leads or links that I could follow?
commonsense
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by commonsense »

ken wrote:
commonsense wrote:...when something better replaces humankind, what will it look like? Will it be an entity that creates sustainable living just by not doing everything that humankind does now? Will it be a society comprised entirely of beings that are relaxed and contented? Will it have some type of universal formula for hope? What obstacles might lie in its path to some kind of enlightenment? How might this replacement thing handle those hazards? What exactly would happen to hostility and anxiety? Would these replacement beings eventually wear out and need to be replaced?
All your questions can be very easily answered. But how much time and effort are you prepared to give?
I am retired but busy. Also, I think asynchronous communication can be acceptable for this and other forum discussions. For those reasons I will only commit to a daily visit and to replying when I believe I have, if only in my opinion, a valuable contribution to make. I am also quite willing to apply the effort necessary to research my position before making a case for it. (I hope I have answered your question about time and effort.)

I look forward with delight to reading your answers to these and other questions as they arise.

P.S. I am taking you off of my foe list.
commonsense
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by commonsense »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
thedoc wrote:
Dontaskme wrote: what doesn't kill you make you stronger,
Bull Shit, that is just an excuse for stupid people to survive doing stupid things. You get stronger by resisting the urge to do stupid things.
I agree. I've always thought that was a particularly stupid expression.
Good point, Doc, about resisting the urge to behave stupidly. However I would ask why the excuse wouldn't apply to smart people as well. After all, aren't smart people capable of doing not so smart things as well?
AMod
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by AMod »

ForCruxSake,
ForCruxSake wrote:... In my opinion, the best way to get users 'behaving responsibly, is by allowing thread creators to block foes from entering threads they might start. That way you get a clean dialogue going, with the flow of thought intact. If they wish to enter your thread, they have to change the way they interact. Giving thread users that bit of actual control would be an enormous help. ...
No we won't be doing that as in our opinion this would just allow people to hear only what they want to hear and we've got enough of that in the social media world as it is.

Like I said, report(preferably) or PM and the mods will take your issue seriously.
I like that you do take reports seriously but right now, I can't even PM anyone. I have two posts stuck in my Outbox, failing to send. I've successfully sent PMs before so have no idea what I'm doing, or is going, wrong. I have no idea how I'm supposed to report things if I can't send a PM to you. It'd be great if you could sort that out. ...
They are not failing to send as the PM system works by the user opening them. If they don't open them they don't go.
I've tried to email you (mods/admin), a while ago, about trolling and what the rules might be concerning that, and only recently received a reply after a second PM.
This gives a reasonable idea I think -

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=394

AMod.
ForCruxSake
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by ForCruxSake »

AMod wrote:ForCruxSake,
ForCruxSake wrote:... In my opinion, the best way to get users 'behaving responsibly, is by allowing thread creators to block foes from entering threads they might start. That way you get a clean dialogue going, with the flow of thought intact. If they wish to enter your thread, they have to change the way they interact. Giving thread users that bit of actual control would be an enormous help. ...
No we won't be doing that as in our opinion this would just allow people to hear only what they want to hear and we've got enough of that in the social media world as it is.

Like I said, report(preferably) or PM and the mods will take your issue seriously.
I like that you do take reports seriously but right now, I can't even PM anyone. I have two posts stuck in my Outbox, failing to send. I've successfully sent PMs before so have no idea what I'm doing, or is going, wrong. I have no idea how I'm supposed to report things if I can't send a PM to you. It'd be great if you could sort that out. ...
They are not failing to send as the PM system works by the user opening them. If they don't open them they don't go.
I've tried to email you (mods/admin), a while ago, about trolling and what the rules might be concerning that, and only recently received a reply after a second PM.
This gives a reasonable idea I think -

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=394

AMod.
Good to know. Thank you.
commonsense
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by commonsense »

ForCruxSake wrote:Here on the forum, whilst I love what certain people have to say (-some of it very quotable), it's hard work trying to navigate, and not be affected by, what I perceive as other people's hate filled, whining, and inability to discuss, openly and with grace.
Amen.

ForCruxSake wrote:Unfortunately, it's the time and energy navigating people's attempts to manipulate you, or deal with childlike, expletive filled, outbursts, which you yourself begin to emulate in the hope that by speaking the same language(emphasis added) you might get through, that's making the forum feel more like a street corner, to me, where individuals, and their cronies, hang out to pounce out of a sense of pure boredom, rather than a love for what is interesting here.
Of course, whenever composing text you must always consider the audience. However, you must never, never, never emulate the tone and vocabulary of ungracious posts. For one thing, you cannot get through to someone who is hostile. Secondly, posing as a fellow hanging out on a street corner must most certainly be a disingenuous behavior for one as insightful as you.

ForCruxSake wrote:I've tried to imagine how my local library would be, filled with the forum characters here. That'd be a laugh! Though I feel police sirens might be a regular sound, as blood would be spilt and charges of public disorder order dispensed. The 'big philosophy boys' as I like to call some of you guys, would be up in the reference section, where the leather seats and tabletops are, and the sound of their thinking would be louder than their occasionally whispered voices. Downstairs, the rowdier elements would be found in fiction, arguing the toss and being renavigated [sic] to the non-fiction aisles, but somehow they would always gravitate back to fiction. There'd be a few in the children's section, myself included, watching the even smaller kids trying not to throw rattles out of prams, and in some cases prams out of rattles, as they are so whimsically nonsensical.
Excellent imagery!

ForCruxSake wrote:This place needs people like you. I'm not sure there's enough 'love' here to stay myself. I'm not talking about the love that some seem to associate with the assent of ideas... as if every argument has to end with assent, or a winner and loser...because who comes to a philosophy site to agree! I'm talking about the ability to discuss, and disagree, with intelligence and grace. Appreciating how lucky you are to be in a place where you can discuss openly and with grace.
Well said!

ForCruxSake wrote:I've attracted people I wouldn't have to engage with in the real world, and put up with belligerent, expletive filled rants, that go round and round in circles... that wouldn't pass muster in the real world. Some of what's been said here could possibly invoke the public disorder act, which doesn't deny free speech, but disallows free speech to descend into offence.

Don't put up--just ignore.
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Greta
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by Greta »

ken wrote:
Greta wrote:
ken wrote:
I find most of the stuff talked about here is far more important than any of the everyday things.
I take your point but there's a lot more deep (and influential) material out there than the stuff generally spoken about online, here and elsewhere. Yet we are here. It's easier on the brain :)
I am looking for the deepest (and meaningfulest) material where it can also be discussed. Do you have any leads or links that I could follow?
I don't know, Ken. The forums with deeper discussions tend to be pretty dry and heavy going. Most deep material is seemingly not online.
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Greta
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by Greta »

commonsense wrote:...when something better replaces humankind, what will it look like? Will it be an entity that creates sustainable living just by not doing everything that humankind does now? Will it be a society comprised entirely of beings that are relaxed and contented? Will it have some type of universal formula for hope? What obstacles might lie in its path to some kind of enlightenment? How might this replacement thing handle those hazards? What exactly would happen to hostility and anxiety? Would these replacement beings eventually wear out and need to be replaced by something else?
The only cause for hope I see, although a big one, is how the universe and Earth have developed over time.

Hostility and anxiety will probably only go away when the cause - lack of sustainability - is addressed. If resources were endlessly available there would be no conflict. Maybe when almost everyone is living a virtual existence?
Dubious
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by Dubious »

commonsense wrote: ...when something better replaces humankind, what will it look like?
To decide that question depends on what happens during the metamorphosis which causes the gradual replacing.

Enlightenment is not something which ever completes itself into a perfect circle...and that's good, very good in fact because without obstacles there is nothing to strive against, nothing which thrusts the muscles of one's will power against that which seeks to limit both knowledge and understanding.

Obstacles are the beacons which strain current levels of consciousness and move it forward to a less fractional entity. If that can't be accomplished by those who are mature enough to do so, nature takes no prisoners. The way I see it, with humans it's straining confidence to believe they'll ever get to any critical level of insight beyond expressing their desire for it. Even so, there is such a thing as "too late"!
thedoc
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by thedoc »

commonsense wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
thedoc wrote:
Bull Shit, that is just an excuse for stupid people to survive doing stupid things. You get stronger by resisting the urge to do stupid things.
I agree. I've always thought that was a particularly stupid expression.
Good point, Doc, about resisting the urge to behave stupidly. However I would ask why the excuse wouldn't apply to smart people as well. After all, aren't smart people capable of doing not so smart things as well?
It does, but mostly I've heard stupid people using it as an excuse to do stupid things, certainly very smart people can do stupid things if it is something they have little or no knowledge about. In fact I have known of some very smart people doing and saying stupid things.

Einstein introduced a factor into his equations to make the universe static, later he found out that the universe was expanding, he described the factor as "The biggest blunder of my career", it was a stupid mistake on his part.
ken
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by ken »

commonsense wrote:
ken wrote:
commonsense wrote:...when something better replaces humankind, what will it look like? Will it be an entity that creates sustainable living just by not doing everything that humankind does now? Will it be a society comprised entirely of beings that are relaxed and contented? Will it have some type of universal formula for hope? What obstacles might lie in its path to some kind of enlightenment? How might this replacement thing handle those hazards? What exactly would happen to hostility and anxiety? Would these replacement beings eventually wear out and need to be replaced?
All your questions can be very easily answered. But how much time and effort are you prepared to give?
I am retired but busy. Also, I think asynchronous communication can be acceptable for this and other forum discussions. For those reasons I will only commit to a daily visit and to replying when I believe I have, if only in my opinion, a valuable contribution to make.
What contribution could you make other than to clarify My responses? If you are asking your questions from a truly open perspective, then you will want to remain open and just keep seeking clarification, this is best done with further truly open-ended questioning. However, if you believe you already have a solution or know some of the answers to your questions already, then what use is there in Me providing answers?
commonsense wrote: I am also quite willing to apply the effort necessary to research my position before making a case for it. (I hope I have answered your question about time and effort.)
Yes you have answered My question. But unfortunately you appear to already have a position regarding the questions you asked, therefore those questions were not asked seeking answers for learning and wisdom purposes. It appears that they were asked in the hope that the answers given will provoke either you already agreeing with them, which will provide more support for your already held position, or, you will be able to reject them, and then argue/fight for your already held position. Either way I am not interested in that way of discussing.
commonsense wrote:I look forward with delight to reading your answers to these and other questions as they arise.
If you are truly open and thus are looking forward to learning more, then I would be more than delighted to have a discussion with you. But if you just want to put forward your position, then unless it is something that will benefit ALL of society, then I am not really interested in it.

Just let Me know if you are truly open and asked those questions from a truly open perspective, or if you have a position already, which you just want to make a case for. There is no use in Me providing answers if it is the latter.
commonsense wrote:P.S. I am taking you off of my foe list.
I am not absolutely sure how foe lists work, but i thought posts by users on a foe list are not able to be seen by the one who made the foe list. How could you see this post of mine if I was on your foe list previously?

P.S. Why was I on your foe list anyway?
And, why take Me off now?
ForCruxSake
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by ForCruxSake »

ken wrote: I am not absolutely sure how foe lists work, but i thought posts by users on a foe list are not able to be seen by the one who made the foe list. How could you see this post of mine if I was on your foe list previously?
Apologies for jumping the gun on 'commonsense' here, but the foes list is a little useless. The foe can engage in your thread and see your posts, you just can't see theirs... Sort of... You can see they have posted a response but it is 'folded away' so the content can't be seen. Others can react to their posts, which you can see... It's pointless. In order to not engage with them, you just need the willpower to ignore the fact you know they are responding. What philosopher would do that?

What I feel is needed is a way for them not to be able to see your posts, or engage in threads you might start, as often people you are trying to block show themselves to be, less engaging opponents, posting only to disrupt thinking, or the flow of the thread. I think it would make the less 'rational', more insulting participants, write with responsibility. However this idea has, quite rightly, been pointed out to be exclusive of thought and expansion of thought, as opposed to just excluding bloody mindedness. So you can turn to the moderators if you feel you have a reasonable complaint to make against another user, rather than just annoyed by their ideas.

I'm all for crazy thinking and stuff I disagree with, I just find that some people pitch their disagreeable ideas in a disagreeable way, personalising discussions to consistently make fun of other users, or lowering the tone by just swearing at them, repeatedly, adding little to any thread, but a troll like experience.

Again, apologies for butting in on this post... I have a real bugbear about this subject, at the moment.
ForCruxSake
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by ForCruxSake »

commonsense wrote:
ForCruxSake wrote:Here on the forum, whilst I love what certain people have to say (-some of it very quotable), it's hard work trying to navigate, and not be affected by, what I perceive as other people's hate filled, whining, and inability to discuss, openly and with grace.
Amen.

ForCruxSake wrote:Unfortunately, it's the time and energy navigating people's attempts to manipulate you, or deal with childlike, expletive filled, outbursts, which you yourself begin to emulate in the hope that by speaking the same language(emphasis added) you might get through, that's making the forum feel more like a street corner, to me, where individuals, and their cronies, hang out to pounce out of a sense of pure boredom, rather than a love for what is interesting here.
Of course, whenever composing text you must always consider the audience. However, you must never, never, never emulate the tone and vocabulary of ungracious posts. For one thing, you cannot get through to someone who is hostile. Secondly, posing as a fellow hanging out on a street corner must most certainly be a disingenuous behavior for one as insightful as you.

ForCruxSake wrote:I've tried to imagine how my local library would be, filled with the forum characters here. That'd be a laugh! Though I feel police sirens might be a regular sound, as blood would be spilt and charges of public disorder order dispensed. The 'big philosophy boys' as I like to call some of you guys, would be up in the reference section, where the leather seats and tabletops are, and the sound of their thinking would be louder than their occasionally whispered voices. Downstairs, the rowdier elements would be found in fiction, arguing the toss and being renavigated [sic] to the non-fiction aisles, but somehow they would always gravitate back to fiction. There'd be a few in the children's section, myself included, watching the even smaller kids trying not to throw rattles out of prams, and in some cases prams out of rattles, as they are so whimsically nonsensical.
Excellent imagery!

ForCruxSake wrote:This place needs people like you. I'm not sure there's enough 'love' here to stay myself. I'm not talking about the love that some seem to associate with the assent of ideas... as if every argument has to end with assent, or a winner and loser...because who comes to a philosophy site to agree! I'm talking about the ability to discuss, and disagree, with intelligence and grace. Appreciating how lucky you are to be in a place where you can discuss openly and with grace.
Well said!

ForCruxSake wrote:I've attracted people I wouldn't have to engage with in the real world, and put up with belligerent, expletive filled rants, that go round and round in circles... that wouldn't pass muster in the real world. Some of what's been said here could possibly invoke the public disorder act, which doesn't deny free speech, but disallows free speech to descend into offence.

Don't put up--just ignore.
Thank you, for this post. It's reassuring to know others 'get' what you say, and can offer advice... openly and with grace.
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Dontaskme
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by Dontaskme »

ken wrote:
Dontaskme wrote:
Is human sentient mind as good as it's ever going to get, or are we the custodial keepers of a higher mind that has overall absolute power and control of life?
Human beings are the custodial keepers of the highest Mind, which has overall absolute power and control of Life.
Thank you, and we've always both agreed on that one Ken.

Happy to see you loving the living breathing walking talking barbie / ken doll world ... the only action figure in town, see you around..!! :wink:
ForCruxSake
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Re: What makes you puke?

Post by ForCruxSake »

Greta wrote:Hostility and anxiety will probably only go away when the cause - lack of sustainability - is addressed. If resources were endlessly available there would be no conflict. Maybe when almost everyone is living a virtual existence?
I'd like to think this were true. Things, over time, have only become better for the mass population in the progressive first world. The more we have, the more we want. If resources were endlessly available, I still don't think it would satisfy greed. Somehow, someone would have something, someone else desires, even if it's just that somebody' else's wife! As ridiculous as it might sound, something as stupid as that, could be the start of a chain of events that lead to mass suffering.

Is it part of human nature to be despicable? To covet? To want more? To have a monopoly on whatever it is that is endlessly available and charge what you like for it? Religious and secular laws that have come into being, over millenia, seem to suggest so.
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