The Celtic Goddess: Ancasta

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attofishpi
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Re: The Celtic Goddess: Ancasta

Post by attofishpi »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:However in this instance there is no reason to suppose Ancasta is such a deity any more than another type of deity.

The evidence for Ancasta is ONE single inscription. That is it. The inscription is dedicated by an unknown person, of unknown ethnicity. All we know is that he has a Latin or Latinised name.
We can be fairly certain this person was of some authority. We also know of the depths that this person went to espouse Ancasta. Is there any other known inscription of a similar vein in the British Isles?
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: The Celtic Goddess: Ancasta

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

attofishpi wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:However in this instance there is no reason to suppose Ancasta is such a deity any more than another type of deity.

The evidence for Ancasta is ONE single inscription. That is it. The inscription is dedicated by an unknown person, of unknown ethnicity. All we know is that he has a Latin or Latinised name.
We can be fairly certain this person was of some authority. We also know of the depths that this person went to espouse Ancasta. Is there any other known inscription of a similar vein in the British Isles?
No we can't
One piece of evidence (a small inscription gives no depth).
No, not mentioning Ancasta obviously. But there are many other such dedications all over the Roman world.
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Re: The Celtic Goddess: Ancasta

Post by Belinda »

Hobbes Chpoice wrote:
If you are interested then look up Genius loci.
Interesting :)
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Re: The Celtic Goddess: Ancasta

Post by RickLewis »

attofishpi wrote: Understood. I will now need to research more discovered inscriptions where someone of a Roman name, likely someone within the Roman legion, someone with authority practically kissed the arse of a foreign deity.
Salve! Thanks for an interesting discussion. It inspired me to look up a couple of related Wikipedia articles just now, so naturally I now consider myself to be an international expert on this area...

In particular and for whatever it is worth here is the link to the Wiki article on vota:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Votum

The bit I thought might possibly have some bearing is in the section on military vota. There among other stuff is this claim:

"A vow would also be made in connection with the ritual of evocatio, negotiations with the enemy's tutelary deity to offer superior cult."

The linked article on the ritual of evocatio says:
The ritual was conducted in a military setting either as a threat during a siege or as a result of surrender, and aimed at diverting the favor of a tutelary deity from the opposing city to the Roman side, customarily with a promise of better-endowed cult or a more lavish temple.[190] As a tactic of psychological warfare, evocatio undermined the enemy's sense of security by threatening the sanctity of its city walls (see pomerium) and other forms of divine protection. In practice, evocatio was a way to mitigate otherwise sacrilegious looting of religious images from shrines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_ ... n#evocatio

So maybe if Ancasta was indeed the local Celtic goddess of the river then this was a Roman soldier making an offering to her (a) as a public relations exercise so he could claim to have her 'on side' or (b) as a way of making public amends for despoiling her shrine in some way.

It is just a suggestion and against this, further down the same section it says: "Formal evocations are known only during the Republic." , so this inscription might be a bit late for that.
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Re: The Celtic Goddess: Ancasta

Post by Belinda »

RickLewis wrote:
So maybe if Ancasta was indeed the local Celtic goddess of the river then this was a Roman soldier making an offering to her (a) as a public relations exercise so he could claim to have her 'on side' or (b) as a way of making public amends for despoiling her shrine in some way.
:)

We all should be that sort of pagan and if we were that sort of pagan the natural environment would not be in such danger from us as it now is.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: The Celtic Goddess: Ancasta

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

RickLewis wrote:
So maybe if Ancasta was indeed the local Celtic goddess of the river then this was a Roman soldier making an offering to her (a) as a public relations exercise so he could claim to have her 'on side' or (b) as a way of making public amends for despoiling her shrine in some way.

It's an odd way to put it. Some of these "Romans" were born here.

There was an important Roman presence in the South form 55BC, as a significant trading partner with the rest of Europe.
The formal occupation was from 44AD to 410 AD. Do the maths! And it did not just stop there.
It never fails to amuse me that people tend to see the Britano-Roman relations as some sort of temporary arrangement.

Subtract the same length of time from 2017 and we get Oliver Cromwell and King Charles. It's a long time.

Romans were settled here. "Celtic" people were Romanised. The idea that this dedication might have had something to do with making amends for despoiling a shrine, is unlikely in the extreme.
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Re: The Celtic Goddess: Ancasta

Post by Belinda »

Hobbes Choice wrote:
Romans were settled here. "Celtic" people were Romanised. The idea that this dedication might have had something to do with making amends for despoiling a shrine, is unlikely in the extreme.
Many Romano British people were pagans who were cognizant of spirits of place.
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attofishpi
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Re: The Celtic Goddess: Ancasta

Post by attofishpi »

RickLewis wrote:
attofishpi wrote: Understood. I will now need to research more discovered inscriptions where someone of a Roman name, likely someone within the Roman legion, someone with authority practically kissed the arse of a foreign deity.
Salve! Thanks for an interesting discussion. It inspired me to look up a couple of related Wikipedia articles just now, so naturally I now consider myself to be an international expert on this area...

In particular and for whatever it is worth here is the link to the Wiki article on vota:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Votum
Thanks Rick - as mentioned on the link:-
...these are regularly marked with the letters V.S.L.M., votum solvit libens merito, noting that the person making the dedication "He has fulfilled his vow, willingly, as it should."

Whereas on the the Ancasta translation WIKI gave for the VSLM part:-
...willingly and deservedly fulfills his vow.

Which does strike me as somewhat different translation by way of deservedly.

I guess i could have looked this stuff up first! Seems Hobbes was right - it's typical of what went on.
RickLewis wrote:The bit I thought might possibly have some bearing is in the section on military vota. There among other stuff is this claim:

"A vow would also be made in connection with the ritual of evocatio, negotiations with the enemy's tutelary deity to offer superior cult."

The linked article on the ritual of evocatio says:
RickLewis wrote:The ritual was conducted in a military setting either as a threat during a siege or as a result of surrender, and aimed at diverting the favor of a tutelary deity from the opposing city to the Roman side, customarily with a promise of better-endowed cult or a more lavish temple.[190] As a tactic of psychological warfare, evocatio undermined the enemy's sense of security by threatening the sanctity of its city walls (see pomerium) and other forms of divine protection. In practice, evocatio was a way to mitigate otherwise sacrilegious looting of religious images from shrines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_ ... n#evocatio
Its really interesting. The Romans subject their allegiance to the local deity, then really want to sway the locals to believe in a replacement deity original to their own.
I found this which basically outlines the fact that the locals would take on a replacement closest to the one that fits their own!:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_deities
By a process of synthesism, after the Roman conquest of Celtic areas, these (Celtic Deities) became associated with their Roman equivalent, and their worship continued until Christianization. Ancient Celtic art produced few images of deities, and these are hard to identify, lacking inscriptions, but in the post-conquest period many more images were made, some with inscriptions naming the deity.
RickLewis wrote:So maybe if Ancasta was indeed the local Celtic goddess of the river then this was a Roman soldier making an offering to her (a) as a public relations exercise so he could claim to have her 'on side' or (b) as a way of making public amends for despoiling her shrine in some way.
Absolutely a) One could imagine him turning to a fellow soldier to ascertain who the local deity here in question is! in a Monty Python kind of way, here we go again, give me a tablet or at least a peice of rock. ..And possibly b) also.
RickLewis wrote:It is just a suggestion and against this, further down the same section it says: "Formal evocations are known only during the Republic." , so this inscription might be a bit late for that.
Talking of the period:- 509 BC, and ending in 27 BC. I've presumed the inscription is in stone, can't seem to find further info on that, whether if it is, radiocarbon dating would work for the area chiselled - ive no idea!
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