It's true

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Skip
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Re: It's true

Post by Skip »

If there are any absolute truths - and there probably are - humans are not equipped to recognize, much less comprehend, let alone evaluate them.

So the best we can do, truth-wise, is to set standards of fact-content on various kinds of information. Information is necessarily provisional, situational ,relative - I prefer relevant - and limited. We can judge the truth-value of a statement only according to how well it answers a specific delimited and comprehensible question.

Even if the witness in a courtroom is sworn to tell "the whole truth", if he were asked: "Did you see the defendant on Friday the thirteenth of March, 2016," the judge would not expect him to begin with the Big Bang. He meant, and we understand that he meant: The whole truth, insofar as you know it, relating to the matter currently under scrutiny.

Without this general understanding, we would have endless philosophical debate instead of useful communication.
We might have invented the wheel, but not the wagon: that required the exchange of coherent information.
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HexHammer
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Re: It's true

Post by HexHammer »

99.999% of all those cozy chatters in various philosophy fora loves to waste their time on completely irrelevant cozy chat, and doesn't comprehend that they waste their time on useless topic in the delusion of enlightenment.
Skip
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Re: It's true

Post by Skip »

Ah, but the other 0.0001% is pure bliss!
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HexHammer
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Re: It's true

Post by HexHammer »

Skip wrote:Ah, but the other 0.0001% is pure bliss!
..if only it was so..
ken
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Re: It's true

Post by ken »

TSBU wrote:This thread should be named "dementia, now the biggest cause of death over taking heart disease, example:"
This thread is for posting things that are true...
ken
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Re: It's true

Post by ken »

Lacewing wrote:
ken wrote:
Lacewing wrote: I don't see what you're trying to accomplish by adding the word "absolutely". If it seems true at this moment and in this situation, that's when and how it's true (even if we boldly state "always"). Anything can change. I (personally) don't think there are absolute truths (is that what you were getting at)?
Yes that is exactly what I was getting at. Considering this thread you started is for posting things that are true I was querying you if some things can be absolutely true or only relatively true. You have answered this already. But your (personal) take that "anything can change" appears as though you are proposing it is an absolute truth.

Though some truths like "Anything can change" can appear to be as close to an absolute truth as there can be, that truth can also change. Therefore, "It's true", but only relatively. But, if the truth "Anything can change" did change, then that change, itself, could also make "Anything can change" truth more, or may be even absolute(ly)?, true. I guess it is true then that 'Absolutely everything is relative to the observer', more true/r.

Are you open to the fact and thus truth that there could be absolute truths?
Why are you making me want to poke my eyes out? :)
I do not make you do anything you do not want to do. As an adult you have total control over all of your emotions and behaviors. If I am making you do anything, then that is because you are allowing Me to have control over you.
Lacewing wrote: Sorry, Ken, I've clarified as much as I can on this.
I know you can clarify much, much more than you have. That is why the inquisition. All you have to do is answer my extremely easy and very simple questions openly and honestly. When you have clarified as much as you possibly could, then I will stop asking clarifying questions. You may personally think that there are no absolute truths, but I am still inquisitive if you are open to the fact that there could be absolute truths? What you think is true is not necessarily true. To be able to find what is actually TRUE is the inquisitive and open Mind.
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Lacewing
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Re: It's true

Post by Lacewing »

ken wrote:I know you can clarify much, much more than you have.
I'm not interested in going down whatever path you think I should go down in the way that you think I should do it, Ken. I honestly don't think that there are any absolute truths because: a) everything seems to continually evolve (at least for now :) ); and b) the whole notion of "truth" is surely a human concept. Beyond this human world, there would likely be no meaning or reason for "truth". So the idea of "absolute truths" seems like a desperate attempt of humans to think that they know something significant and solid.

That's my answer... and I reserve the right to explore and clarify further only as I see fit. :)
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TSBU
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Re: It's true

Post by TSBU »

ken wrote:
TSBU wrote:This thread should be named "dementia, now the biggest cause of death over taking heart disease, example:"
This thread is for posting things that are true...
The first rule of the tautology club is the first rule of the tautology club....
thedoc
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Re: It's true

Post by thedoc »

HexHammer wrote: all those cozy chatters in various philosophy fora loves to waste their time on completely irrelevant cozy chat, and doesn't comprehend that they waste their time on useless topic in the delusion of enlightenment.
So some of the posters post cozy chat, and others bitch and complain about it. Is there anyone who actually posts on philosophy?
ken
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Re: It's true

Post by ken »

TSBU wrote:
ken wrote:
TSBU wrote:This thread should be named "dementia, now the biggest cause of death over taking heart disease, example:"
This thread is for posting things that are true...
The first rule of the tautology club is the first rule of the tautology club....
If a person asks a question and does not get an answer the first time, then just sometimes they ask the same question again in a different way in an attempt to get an answer this time, which is exactly what I did. This has nothing at all to do with dementia nor tautology. I may have said the same phrase or expression twice with different words but this was to promote an answer from the question I am asking. I am NOT saying the same thing in two different ways just for the sake of it. I am trying to discover how open or not a person is.

If a person says they do not think something exists is fine, but I am not asking if they think it exists or not. I am asking if they are open to the fact that it could exist. Are you yourself able to see the difference now? Or, is it still to subtle for you to notice the difference, which by the way I think the difference is blatantly obvious.

Are you aware that thinking some thing is true and being open to what is actually true can be two completely very distinct different things?
Last edited by ken on Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
ken
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Re: It's true

Post by ken »

Lacewing wrote:
ken wrote:I know you can clarify much, much more than you have.
I'm not interested in going down whatever path you think I should go down in the way that you think I should do it, Ken.
I know you are not interested but for any person who is, the only path I think you and every other person go down is the open and honest path.
Lacewing wrote:I honestly don't think that there are any absolute truths because: a) everything seems to continually evolve (at least for now :) ); and b) the whole notion of "truth" is surely a human concept. Beyond this human world, there would likely be no meaning or reason for "truth". So the idea of "absolute truths" seems like a desperate attempt of humans to think that they know something significant and solid.
I am not interested in what you think. I am interested in what you are open to. Either you are open to the fact that there may well be absolute truth/s, which by the way is something I find very significant and solid. Either you are open to that truth or you are not?
Lacewing wrote:That's my answer... and I reserve the right to explore and clarify further only as I see fit. :)
You have the right to do whatever you like. You are your own person, free to choose and do whatever you like. You are exactly right in that you reserve the right to clarify further, or not, as you see fit. But it appears I am the only one exploring here. I have just been trying to get a yes or no response to the simple question are you open to the fact that there could exist absolute truths? Your yes or no answer will influence how much more I converse or not.

I have just been exploring, with clarifying questions, how open you are. What you think is true does not clarify, in of itself, exactly how open or not you are. However, what you believe would clarify for Me anyway how non open a person is. For example I could think absolute truths do not exist but I can still be very open to the fact that they could exist, however, if I believe absolute truths do not exist then I am not open at all to the very fact that they could exist.
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TSBU
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Re: It's true

Post by TSBU »

ken wrote:
TSBU wrote:
ken wrote:
This thread is for posting things that are true...
The first rule of the tautology club is the first rule of the tautology club....
If a person asks a question and does not get an answer the first time, then just sometimes they ask the same question again in a different way in an attempt to get an answer this time, which is exactly what I did. This has nothing at all to do with dementia nor tautology. I may have said the same phrase or expression twice with different words but this was to promote an answer from the question I am asking. I am NOT saying the same thing in two different ways just for the sake of it. I am trying to discover how open or not a person is.

If a person says they do not think something exists is fine, but I am not asking if they think it exists or not. I am asking if they are open to the fact that it could exist. Are you yourself able to see the difference now? Or, is it still to subtle for you to notice the difference, which by the way I think the difference is blatantly obvious.

Are you aware that thinking some thing is true and being open to what is actually true can be two completely very distinct different things?
Dementia, now the biggest cause of people understanding what they want.
Impenitent
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Re: It's true

Post by Impenitent »

"My truth is not your truth" - B. Lee

-Imp
ken
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Re: It's true

Post by ken »

TSBU wrote:
ken wrote:
TSBU wrote:
The first rule of the tautology club is the first rule of the tautology club....
If a person asks a question and does not get an answer the first time, then just sometimes they ask the same question again in a different way in an attempt to get an answer this time, which is exactly what I did. This has nothing at all to do with dementia nor tautology. I may have said the same phrase or expression twice with different words but this was to promote an answer from the question I am asking. I am NOT saying the same thing in two different ways just for the sake of it. I am trying to discover how open or not a person is.

If a person says they do not think something exists is fine, but I am not asking if they think it exists or not. I am asking if they are open to the fact that it could exist. Are you yourself able to see the difference now? Or, is it still to subtle for you to notice the difference, which by the way I think the difference is blatantly obvious.

Are you aware that thinking some thing is true and being open to what is actually true can be two completely very distinct different things?
Dementia, now the biggest cause of people understanding what they want.

I do what I do to get people to give open and honest answers. The best way I found is to ask very simple and straightforward questions. But obviously you are unable to or unwilling to answer these type of questions also. So, I keep trying and learning. I have already made it quite clear that I am only here learning how to express better. And, according to you, I have not learned anything yet. Am I right?
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TSBU
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Re: It's true

Post by TSBU »

ken wrote:
TSBU wrote:
ken wrote:
If a person asks a question and does not get an answer the first time, then just sometimes they ask the same question again in a different way in an attempt to get an answer this time, which is exactly what I did. This has nothing at all to do with dementia nor tautology. I may have said the same phrase or expression twice with different words but this was to promote an answer from the question I am asking. I am NOT saying the same thing in two different ways just for the sake of it. I am trying to discover how open or not a person is.

If a person says they do not think something exists is fine, but I am not asking if they think it exists or not. I am asking if they are open to the fact that it could exist. Are you yourself able to see the difference now? Or, is it still to subtle for you to notice the difference, which by the way I think the difference is blatantly obvious.

Are you aware that thinking some thing is true and being open to what is actually true can be two completely very distinct different things?
Dementia, now the biggest cause of people understanding what they want.

I do what I do to get people to give open and honest answers. The best way I found is to ask very simple and straightforward questions. But obviously you are unable to or unwilling to answer these type of questions also. So, I keep trying and learning. I have already made it quite clear that I am only here learning how to express better. And, according to you, I have not learned anything yet. Am I right?
It's amazing how far you've gone in this thread talking to me.
But now that you ask, no, you are not right. You came to this forum not to learn, but to teach, from the begining, and when you say "better ways to express" the real truth is "better way to be listened more". You don't want people to understand you, or to understand the world and grow, you just want them to listen to you, you want to be "the teacher, the master, the one in charge".
It's very common here.
You don't know how little you know XD, many people think that they know it all, they have "all the important answers", they are the smartest, the wizest. It's probably genetic, when a person grows, they doubt less, and they move more in memory... sometimes if their brain gets old and ill enough, they stop thinking and they live completely in their memory, they don't know what they have in front of their eyes, they are thinking in years ago, that's dementia.
You should learn to listen, to think, at the begining, in a talk, that you are wrong, not to "express better" but to "understand better" (And that's the topic usually said by people who never listen, isn't that funny?). I'm saying what I say in this thread, cause it's obvious that you aren't doing that, none of you is searching for new knowledge, you are just saying yourself "I'm the best". Almost every question has been asked by a human being and answered by hundreds, thousands, millions of human beings before you, they wrote books about this, and you are not even saying what do you understand by truth, there is no definition here, you are talking about the existence or not, of something, when you don't even know for sure what means "existence" for you. And you are seeing in my fucking joke sentences, a whole psichology crap that includes that I'm the one seeing things that aren't there, isn't that funny?

Whatever man, I'm out XD.
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