What is truth?

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creativesoul
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Re: What is truth?

Post by creativesoul »

Nice discussion you two...

How would the consideration that truth is necessarily presupposed within all thought/belief and statements thereof affect/effect the focus?

Verification/falsification methods presuppose truth by virtue of working with, and thus 'looking' for, correspondence with/to fact/reality.

It may also be quite helpful to begin distinguishing between the different definitions(senses) of the terms "truth" and "fact" being used here.
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Necromancer
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Re: What is truth? Truth is Simple

Post by Necromancer »

"Truth is Simple"
by Leon Horsten; Graham E. Leigh

Abstract:
Even though disquotationalism is not correct as it is usually formulated, a deep insight lies behind it. Specifically, it can be argued that, modulo implicit commitment to reflection principles, all there is to the notion of truth is given by a simple, natural collection of truth-biconditionals.
- From https://academic.oup.com/mind/issue, Volume 126, Issue 501, January 2017.

:D
Eodnhoj7
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Re: What is truth?

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

I don't want to sound over simplistic, but it may (and I want to emphasize "may") be broken down to one word: Definition.
osgart
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Re: What is truth?

Post by osgart »

worth
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: What is truth?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Truth is the actual state of affairs within the universal framework, that humans may one day know complete, if they're honest, and don't kill themselves off or are killed off by the universe beforehand. The truth is never 'determined' by humans, only ever the universe, though fools believe otherwise. Humans can only ever come to know the truths that are already present, once they've removed the sleep from their minds eye. In the day of humanities total understanding of all truths, it's only the first few minutes of the first hour.
creativesoul
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Re: What is truth?

Post by creativesoul »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:41 pm I don't want to sound over simplistic, but it may (and I want to emphasize "may") be broken down to one word: Definition.
That's actually the best starting place, lest we be riddled with semantic confusion(s). I would only add that some definitions are of things that exist prior to our naming and defining them... "truth" as correspondence to fact/reality is one, as is "thought/belief" as mental correlation(s), etc.
Nick_A
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Re: What is truth?

Post by Nick_A »

Simone Weil wrote, "What is sacred in science is truth; what is sacred in art is beauty. Truth and beauty are impersonal."

It seems that the personal must be our interpretations. The impersonal is what IS - the impressions themselves received before interpretations..
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VVilliam
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Re: What is truth?

Post by VVilliam »

ken wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:57 am That what is true is truth.
What is true? We could potentially find an example we can agree with and then come to agreement that "what is true is truth"
We all could only agree on that what is true.
Potentially yes we could.
Problematic to that appears to be identifying a thing ( physical or conceptional ) which we can then examine in order to potentially agree that the "thing" being exampled as "true" is indeed "true."
That what we all agree on is truth.
What may being reached for here, is a way in which to bridge the apparent void between subjectivity and objectivity.
"How to combine all our "truths" in one "truth".
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VVilliam
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Re: What is truth?

Post by VVilliam »

ken wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:09 am If truth, itself, is a human made concept, then the whole concept of truth is based solely around what people think and believe, isn't it?
Perhaps this is true?

It could be used as an example of a "truth" we can agree is at least potentially true, and then examine it and critique any discrepancies in the statement.

"Skepdick" made assertions recently along the lines that all things humans create are "supernatural" of origin because all things humans create are "unnatural" ( cars, lightbulbs, science ) thus
"Cars are NOT natural.
Science is NOT natural." is stated.

Is the statement truth?

How do we ( everybody ) agree that it is?
We examine it with in mind to critique it, and if we cannot critique it, then we can at least accept it as truth until future information might arrive which critiques it as "not truth".

If there is bridging to do between subjective and objective, the simply way forward ( perhaps ) would be to assume there is no difference which is real or true between the two concepts.

We could assume that the misinterpretation which has resulted in the duality of perception can only be sourced in the mindfulness aspect of the overall One Thing. ( at once subjective and objective )

In that, we are not looking to find the source and blame it for being so "stupid" when the "truth" may well be that it is a natural enough occurrence with fledging mindfulness - a natural enough thing which occurs.

So everyone might agree with the logic that the source of confusion stems from the mindful ( subjective ) aspect of the overall thing being experienced ( through the human portal/instrument ) and mindfulness is perhaps confused to being able to acknowledge the truth of the "objective" reality it is experiencing, and even adjust our perceptions when we discover we have misinformed our mindfulness ( oh - so the sun does not orbit the earth! ) and stumble on as gracefully as we each are able to, humbly incorporating updated knowledge into our collective "everyone" awareness.

At this stage, I ( the "subjective" ) view the "objective" as not a place specifically designed where "Everyone" can get on the same page ( agree altogether on "what is truth?" ) as it appears to me to be a place where individuals find their own way through the maze of human experience and most are not overly interested in looking for some golden process we all can agree with and work toward achieving together as "one".

Those who do pursue broader knowledge through philosophy and observation of "things" do so largely within their subjective "space" and among those, are they who have come to the realization that they have to work with whatever devices the "objective" has made available to them/what they have invented for themselves to aid them in their journey through the human experience and accept that objective reality provides those devices specifically FOR the individual rather than FOR everyone.

So what we think and believe may or may not be "True/Truth" but the condition isn't really about relying on what others think is "true" to help the individual navigate the maze of the human experience.

Indeed, according to accounts/reports from NDE/OOBE et al type experiences, this human experience is in itself, an initial phase which appears to be for the purpose of "growing personalities" which transfer their information from that into "the next phase" and this is all part of the nature of the One Thing which is both subjective and objective simultaneously and the human experience specifically hides that information - not in an inaccessible way, but rather "to be found by any who seek it".

The "game" is to navigate the maze and find that information...or not. The choice is the individuals to make.
Advocate
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Re: What is truth?

Post by Advocate »

The Truth is whatever continuously replicates. A truth is an instance of The Truth, such as a fact or a perspective.
promethean75
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Re: What is truth?

Post by promethean75 »

Ad u can't just throw philosophical words together becuz they look neat. Wtf does any of that mean.

If something doesn't replicate, is it not true? Like is the chair right here not true? Wait, can i even call a thing true, or is 'true' just a characteristic of an indicative statement? I'd say a statement or a mathematical conclusion is true, but never a banana, or a country, or my anger, or the color yellow, or the speed of a car, or a lasagna recipe.

And what is The Truth as opposed to a truth? U mean like everything that has been true is part of some big Truth? But that just means the truth is that a lot of things have been true. U didn't have to use the phrase 'The Truth' to convey this.

Maybe u also include everything that will be true when u say The Truth. But how can something that hasn't happened yet be part of anything? Couldn't u just say it's true that some things will be true in the future?

Oh u said 'a fact or perspective'. But even these are confusing.

How can a fact be false? No siriusly think about it. If it is a fact that the chair is in front of me, then this fact can't be false. Moreover, if I'm hallucinating and there isn't a chair in front of me, it's a fact that there's no chair in front of me.

Calling a fact a 'truth' is redundant really. Again, think of true or false as qualities of propositions, not of things.

And how can a perspective be 'true'? What's a false perspective like? U mean a hallucination or mirage or something like that? But the hallucination changes nothing about the perspective; it's still your perspective.

When u look at a drinking straw in a glass of water, it looks bent (optical illusion), but your perspective is the same. U know the straw isn't bent, but that doesn't make your perspective wrong becuz you're perceiving a real illusion.
PeteOlcott
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Re: What is truth?

Post by PeteOlcott »

raw_thought wrote: Tue May 12, 2015 3:29 am The common sense understanding of truth is the correspondence theory of truth. From now on referred to as CTT.
If the CTT is true,what does it refer to? Another CTT? Depending on your perspective that is a tautology or an infinite regress. So what is truth?
PS;The CTT is the theory that a proposition is true if it corresponds to a fact.


This is what is look like to me:
Empirical truth fits the correspondence theory of truth. It is the correspondence between sets of physical sensations and their verbal descriptions in the model of the world.
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Dontaskme
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Re: What is truth?

Post by Dontaskme »

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Dubious
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Re: What is truth?

Post by Dubious »

A lie we invented.
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Zarathustra
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Re: What is truth?

Post by Zarathustra »

What if the empirical fact to test the proposition was an illusion?
Which is the priority, the fact, or proposition?
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