Re: The Great Unknown is Me - Myself
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:43 am
Courage is a love affair with the unknown. ~ Osho
For the discussion of all things philosophical, especially articles in the magazine Philosophy Now.
https://forum.philosophynow.org/
No, what makes you objectionable is that you won't say what it is you will be teaching the young.Nick_A wrote:What makes me objectionable is admitting what is said here:
RW: So this idea of knowing myself—what does that mean? Clearly, the implication is that I don’t know myself.
JN: The great unknown is me, myself. We can talk all we want about Kant’s Critique of Pure Reason, and not knowing things in themselves, but this, myself, is the great unknown.
A bald-faced lie.By definition I don't have the answers. ...
What irritates is that you make-up phrases like 'secular mind living by adaptation' and think it means something.I have annoying questions which irritate the secular mind living by adaptation. ...
What would evolving consciously actually mean, what would it entail?The implications is that if we did know ourselves, conscious evolution would be normal for us. ...
What are you talking about?The secular mind only accepts adaptation. ...
You want to know yourself? First ask yourself 'What do I want?", then discover how to think without the internal voice, discover how to improve your memory, discover how your thoughts work, discover your learning strategies, discover how language works in communication, discover how to listen, discover how to see, discover how you feel, discover how all of this fits together then think about what greater thing you'd like to use these discoveries for. It's a start.That is what makes a discussion like the one between RW and JN valuable. It invites and deepens questions of a higher order. It may not be for you but why discourage others? When the link finishes we may agree to describe ideas that touch all of us like how we can "Know Thyself" and be less of a great unknown?
Imagine that!
It’s all fine! It was just an interpretation I defaulted to based on your wording. There was nothing derogatory only a misunderstanding.seeds wrote:I apologize to you, Dubious, I didn’t mean to give the impression that your suggestion of this being another instance of “...being careful what you wish for...” was an inappropriate response to my statement, for indeed it was perfectly reasonable.
What I was attempting to highlight is that you and I seem to have polar-opposite views when it comes to the reason for our existence.
We are indeed in opposition regarding any sublime purpose which may accrue to higher organisms in the universe. It’s not that I have no empathy with this position. One time, meaning long ago, I had similar feelings of inflation regarding human destiny as a crescendo of consciousness creating in its wake this vast fugue of awareness transforming the entire cosmos into the greatest symphony ever composed.seeds wrote:For example, you apparently believe that we (as individuals) have no ultimate and eternal purpose, which, of course, is in stark contrast with my belief that our eternal purpose is so wonderful that it must be kept hidden from us.
Any “object” surrounded by infinity (in the full meaning of the word) reduces to an infinitesimal regardless of size. If “unbounded”, there is no “container” to bind it. Relative to infinity, EVERYTHING is an infinitesimal.”seeds” wrote:What I am about to suggest is obviously speculation, however, the unbounded “ARENA” of what seems to be an infinite void into which our universe is continuously expanding – as is metaphorically depicted in the blackened area surrounding the bubble of our reality in the image below…
...not only extends omnidirectionally away from the reality of our universe, but it also extends omnidirectionally away from any other context of reality imaginable (including those of a transcendent nature).
Therefore, there is absolutely nothing (including nothingness itself) that is not contained within the endless and boundless reaches of infinity.
A true visualization of infinity (i.e., the unbounded extent of the infinite void) can reduce the perceived size of the universe down to that of a single grain of sand.
You’re right, “religious” was not the right term but, leaving out the “salvation” part, there is still some resemblance when thinking about purpose in the universe for it begs the question, who or what would give it? Such an inclusion as revealed to those who managed to approach its inner sanctum is not an idea I could ever come to terms with!“Dubious” wrote:This is more of a religious view than a philosophical one where some supposed knowledge of Ultimate Reality offers humans the perpetually craved anodyne of salvation.”seeds” wrote:Come on now, Dubious, there’s nothing “religious” in my assertions. I’m not positing any doctrines or dogmas that must be obeyed for the sake of one’s salvation.
I’m simply offering a theoretically plausible description of reality from an idealistic perspective (as in all of reality is “mind-based” and “alive”).
Well for one thing oblivion is far more reconcilable with reality than “irrefutable knowledge of Ultimate Reality”, which, if ever known is not likely to preempt entropy and its slow grinding to cosmic oblivion.”Dubious” wrote:The way things are going we will be defeated by reality long before we reach any “irrefutable knowledge” of Ultimate Reality…if there is such a thing.”seeds” wrote:And therein lies a clear example of the aforementioned diametrical contrast of our opposing views.
Wherein I see that the “irrefutable knowledge of Ultimate Reality” would reveal something amazing and wonderful concerning our ultimate destiny,...
...you, on the other hand, seem to see it as something that would reveal our ultimate and eternal oblivion.
If all of your imagined hyperboles regarding human destiny were predicated upon what you thought humanity might be able to achieve within the extremely limiting confines of this universe, then it is no wonder your visions were dashed.Dubious wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:25 am We are indeed in opposition regarding any sublime purpose which may accrue to higher organisms in the universe. It’s not that I have no empathy with this position. One time, meaning long ago, I had similar feelings of inflation regarding human destiny as a crescendo of consciousness creating in its wake this vast fugue of awareness transforming the entire cosmos into the greatest symphony ever composed.
But these patterns eventually turned into imagined hyperboles, merely shadows of our own desires...
Rather than a yearning for more (although that is certainly an important factor), I think it has more to do with the idea (or hope) that whatever it is that was capable of awaking us into life in the first place might be equally capable of providing a means in which we can continue on in a higher context.Dubious wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:25 am ...Consciousness at a certain flash point yearns for more of what it already has not unlike having a million bucks and wanting ten million, upon having that, one-hundred million and so on. Consciousness is an entity in momentum yearning for breakthroughs into higher editions expecting the universe to somehow respond in its own mysterious fashion...
So now you’ve simply settled on a nihilistic outlook? - wherein any sense of curiosity regarding the mystery of how and why your own personal consciousness came into existence, simply vanished with your personal choice to no longer entertain any fantastic ideas?
seeds wrote: What I am about to suggest is obviously speculation, however, the unbounded “ARENA” of what seems to be an infinite void into which our universe is continuously expanding – as is metaphorically depicted in the blackened area surrounding the bubble of our reality in the image below…
...not only extends omnidirectionally away from the reality of our universe, but it also extends omnidirectionally away from any other context of reality imaginable (including those of a transcendent nature).
Therefore, there is absolutely nothing (including nothingness itself) that is not contained within the endless and boundless reaches of infinity.
A true visualization of infinity (i.e., the unbounded extent of the infinite void) can reduce the perceived size of the universe down to that of a single grain of sand.
_______
Agreed.
That was precisely my point.
seeds wrote: Come on now, Dubious, there’s nothing “religious” in my assertions. I’m not positing any doctrines or dogmas that must be obeyed for the sake of one’s salvation.
I’m simply offering a theoretically plausible description of reality from an idealistic perspective (as in all of reality is “mind-based” and “alive”).
I think I made that clear in my prior post.
Could it be that what you could never come to terms with are all of the ridiculous and erroneous ideas and descriptions of God handed down to us from ancient minds?
That’s some excellent prose there, Dubious, but is it possible that the “mental transfusions” are a result of humans hazily intuiting the deeper truths of reality? - as opposed to just wishful thinking?
seeds wrote: And therein lies a clear example of the aforementioned diametrical contrast of our opposing views.
Wherein I see that the “irrefutable knowledge of Ultimate Reality” would reveal something amazing and wonderful concerning our ultimate destiny,...
...you, on the other hand, seem to see it as something that would reveal our ultimate and eternal oblivion.
If you have been paying the slightest bit of attention to my ideas, then you know that I suggest that they have been born into their ultimate and eternal form – a form and context that lies above and outside of the corporeal bounds of the universe – as is suggested in yet another one of my illustrations...Dubious wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:25 am Well for one thing oblivion is far more reconcilable with reality than “irrefutable knowledge of Ultimate Reality”, which, if ever known is not likely to preempt entropy and its slow journey to cosmic oblivion.
But to make it a little more personal; if such Ultimate Knowledge were indeed to generate the conclusion you imagine then what of all the prior humans who couldn’t witness the unfolding of this envisioned destiny?
seeds wrote: Nah, infinity is the container for all that exists.
Hi daramantus,daramantus wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:02 am prove that "infinity" exists, please. and prove that you know about what is "all" that exists" and how do you know that?