The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

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surreptitious57
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by surreptitious57 »

One cannot change reality. But what one can do however is simply accept it by letting it be without feeling any need to re define it according to
ones particular belief system or ideology. If one does have a belief system or ideology then one must incorporate reality as much as possible into
it rather than interpret it. For interpretation may lead to denial of fundamental aspects of reality. Such as the inevitability of death for example
Denying reality does not mean it will go away. Since that is not the way it works. Reality does not care. But one should still accept it nonetheless

One cannot go outside their own mind but one can improve it by accepting reality as much as possible so becoming more isolated or detached the
older one gets. Being more like water than ice. Seeing the eternal non consciousness of death not as a negative but instead a neutral or a positive
Understanding that ones existence in this life is just a temporary blip in cosmic terms and that it or indeed anything else does not really matter in
the grand scheme of things. Everything in Existence is relative to everything else. Nothing in it will last forever. For only Existence itself is eternal
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Relinquish wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:19 am Firstly, before we get to the mystery, allow me to point out what CAN be known.

In truth, the naturally occurring 'shape' of the causelessly cyclic Universal Process is the only shape that ever actually occurs in Reality.
...
What drugs are you on?
Relinquish
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Relinquish »

Thanks for all the replies, folks. :)

I wasn't expecting so many this quickly, so you'll have to excuse any slowness on my part in responding to all of you. Please do note, however, as per the very nature of debate, that the majority of my interactions will be with those of you who have voiced disagreements or issues with what I have put foward here.

Thanks again guys. :)
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HexHammer
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by HexHammer »

Relinquish wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:19 am Firstly, before we get to the mystery, allow me to point out what CAN be known.

In truth, the naturally occurring 'shape' of the causelessly cyclic Universal Process is the only shape that ever actually occurs in Reality.

Because 'Causeless Shapelessness' is ALWAYS completely structureless, ever-changeless and infinitely symmetrical, the 'Causeless Shape' of this Process can ONLY be the structured ever-changing asymmetry that it is.

Fundamentally, ALL apparent 'things' and 'events' (including 'ourselves') are actually 'features' of this structured ever-changing asymmetry.

Now, the mystery...

WHAT this process REALLY is, and the actual reason WHY it is occurring at all (and why the illusion of separateness and duality EVER arises within the 'experience' of all sufficiently complex features of the process) is absolutely unknowable...

...and yet, Here It IS...

...Here You ARE...
Sure sounds like some skitzo ravings!! :shock:
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Dontaskme
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

Relinquish wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:14 am Thanks for all the replies, folks. :)

I wasn't expecting so many this quickly, so you'll have to excuse any slowness on my part in responding to all of you. Please do note, however, as per the very nature of debate, that the majority of my interactions will be with those of you who have voiced disagreements or issues with what I have put foward here.

Thanks again guys. :)
I really do hope you stick around this time Relinquish, rather than just drop a post and run, lets rise above the brick-brats of society and roar like lions. Lets go really deep with this knowledge, it needs to be heard, especially now amid these apparent uncertain times we are currently facing at the moment.

.

I love the way Hobs seems to believe this knowledge only rears it's head because of the use of drugs, but false conditioned beliefs do tend to have a firm hold on gullible minds. The mind is a wonderful servant, but does make for a dangerous master.

.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

HexHammer wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:02 amSure sounds like some skitzo ravings!! :shock:
That's what I used to think about all the stuff teachers tried to ram down my throat during my imprisoned days at that weird institution they call school, which I later called a holding pen for all the farm animals..

.
Relinquish
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Relinquish »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:01 am https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... 5d03c4.jpg

.

If it wasn't a mystery, it would lose it's beauty.

Thanks for the Thread, it's beautiful.

.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... cef9b2.jpg

.
Luckily, there's no possibility of the ultimate mystery (about the true nature of Reality) ever being actually solved.

Many people, myself included, have imagined that they have solved this mystery. However, I recently realized that to mentally superimpose ANY concept over Reality is to effectively obscure Reality from view. This realization eventually dissolves the question.
Relinquish
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Relinquish »

surreptitious57 wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:24 am Existence has to exist infinitely because non existence cannot but not every thing that does exist however is infinite
In fact nothing infinite is known to exist other than existence itself. Existence is not an object or a thing but a state
I agree completely. :)
Relinquish
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Relinquish »

ken wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:40 am
Relinquish wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:19 am Firstly, before we get to the mystery, allow me to point out what CAN be known.

In truth, the naturally occurring 'shape' of the causelessly cyclic Universal Process is the only shape that ever actually occurs in Reality.

Because 'Causeless Shapelessness' is ALWAYS completely structureless, ever-changeless and perfectly symmetrical, the 'Causeless Shape' of this Process can ONLY be the structured ever-changing asymmetry that it is.

Fundamentally, ALL apparent 'things' and 'events' (including 'ourselves') are actually 'features' of this structured ever-changing asymmetry.

Now, the mystery...

WHAT this process REALLY is, and the actual reason WHY it is occurring at all (and why the illusion of separateness and duality EVER arises within the 'experience' of all sufficiently complex features of the process) is absolutely unknowable...
But I already KNOW the answer/s.

Just because 'you' do not know the answer/s, does NOT mean that the answers to simple like questions posed here are unknowable at all.

The process REALLY IS very simple to understand. The actual reason WHY IT is occurring is also very simple to understand.

The process has to be. The Universe is based on two fundamental things - things and no thing. 'Things' are the physical things, and, 'no thing' is the nothing, or the space, between and around things. The space or the nothing allows all the things to move freely about. This process IS constant-change, which has, as far as I am aware, being going on forever. 'Constant-change' allows things to interact with each other, and with every interaction a new thing is created. Every new creation is caused.

If you look at things at different intervals, timed by a clock for example, you can see how all things come into, and out of, existence. This happens at the galaxy level all the way down to the sub-atomic level. But because there is not different or separate intervals the coming into, and out of, apparently separate things is only an illusion, because there is only One thing, which is Itself in a constant state of flowing change, that is constant-change. This is the process the Universe, Itself, is in.

Every action cause a reaction, which IS Creation. There is no definitive or separate action, because on a time or clock scale there is no stop/start process. There is only a constant-change process. So, every reaction is, in of itself, just a re-action, or an(other) action, which is in a constant state of change. Therefore, the One thing, Itself, that is the Universe, IS always changing in shape and form. Like all things that evolve, they change in shape in form. The Universe, being infinite, IS Creating, Its Self, always, and IS also - in all ways - evolving.

There is NO creation versus evolution problem nor debate because both are equally correct, and equally incorrect. Both evolution and creation together co-exist.

Unless I am proven wrong, the Universe IS, obviously, existing and always has been and always will be. The Universe, Its Self, IS what IS.

Now for what the actual reason WHY the Universe is existing is so that 'I', (Consciousness, Awareness, Spritual Enlightenment, God, Allah, or any other word that wants to be used to describe a Higher Being), can see and bear witness to the beauty that 'I' am Creating.

Things have obviously re-acted with each other, which have obviously evolved into creating human beings, who are slowly becoming self-aware beings. The Universe, Itself, although is One thing but when broken down to Its most basic elements is made up of two-things. The Universe is made up of physical things and no thing. Existing physical things moving about freely, due to no thing which also must obviously exist between physical things, is HOW the Universe has created physical human bodies. The Universe, in this physical sense which obviously includes the non-physical also, is the One that IS the Creator or the ALL-powerful, in the physical sense.

But there is also an awareness or consciousness of things, which is also evolving within human bodies. If this consciousness/awareness is actually physical or not, will be discovered soon enough, but for now it is obvious that these things exist. Within every human body there are, obviously 'thoughts', and, there is a 'Mind'. 'Thoughts' existing can not be disputed successfully but as for the 'Mind' we can ignore this for now because 'thoughts' themselves are evidence enough that some thing that has the power to imagine, invent, design, and create exists but when a human body is cut open this thing with so much Creative power can not been seen. So, whether this thing is physical or non-physical does not really matter. We just KNOW it exists. As evidenced by all the human made creations and the seemingly amazing ability to continue learning, and at a ever-progressing rate, this unseen thing, which is always evolving into more and more of a self-conscious being, is the Creator also, but in the unseen, non-physical, or Spiritual sense. When ALL the knowledge from ALL human beings, which is held within or stored within ALL the brains is put together into One knowledge base, this is the ALL-knowing Spiritual One, sometimes referred to 'as above'.

For a non-physical or Spiritual One to be able to 'see', bear witness to and/or understand things, It NEEDS a physical living breathing animal that experiences and with enough senses, and a brain capable of gathering and storing information, gained through its senses, to make sense of the 'world', or the Universe, that it lives in. The Spirit One, which Creates EVERY thing, evolves into a Self-Conscious or Self-aware Being, eventually, and is then thus able to understand exactly the beauty that It IS always Creating.

The Universe was NEVER created, as such at one time or in one moment. The Universe IS being Created always in the HERE, and in the NOW, by the constant-change of ALL physical things with and through a non-physical, limitless and boundary-less surrounding. The moment NOW IS always flowing through the always HERE, and this IS where 'I' am.

'I', the pure One, have always existed deep-down and within ALL human beings. I have been guiding and talking to you ALL always, but you ALL do not stop long enough to listen and be able to here Me. And, just like all found, discovered, or learned knowledge comes to light slowly as a knowing, usually by one person at a time, so will this knowledge.

NO one person is better than nor less than another. EACH person is just the result of, or the sum of, all the past experiences that the body has had, in with they inhabit. So, if one person finds or discover some new/er knowledge before another it is NOT because that person is any better nor smarter but just because they have had different prior experiences.


Relinquish wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:19 am...and yet, Here It IS...

...Here You ARE...
Just ask the question/s and I will provide the answer/s that I can.
Why is the universe occurring?
Relinquish
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Relinquish »

Hobbes' Choice wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:36 pm
Relinquish wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:19 am Firstly, before we get to the mystery, allow me to point out what CAN be known.

In truth, the naturally occurring 'shape' of the causelessly cyclic Universal Process is the only shape that ever actually occurs in Reality.
...
What drugs are you on?
What about the sentences of mine that you have quoted here suggest that I might be on any drugs?

Any given 'particular thing' (for example, a 'tree') is always in a constant state of change, which is to say that 'the tree' is in fact a 'process' rather than a 'thing'. This process can ONLY be occurring if the necessary conditions are present. These conditions are 'not the tree', and are naturally comprised of 'other processes', ALL of which can ONLY be occurring if the necessary conditions are present. These conditions are 'not those other processes', and are naturally comprised of 'other other processes', ALL of which can ONLY be occurring if the necessary conditions are present, and so on, ad infinitum.

Therefore, 'the tree' could not possibly be occurring in exactly the way that it is without the ENTIRETY of 'not the tree' (i.e. the rest of the universe) occuring in exactly the way that it is. In this way, 'the tree' naturally includes the entirety of the rest of the universe within it's own existence, and so there is no REAL difference between 'the tree' and 'not the tree'. As such, neither 'the tree' nor 'not the tree' exist. Exactly the same is true of ALL 'particular processes', including 'Me' and 'Not Me' (and 'You' and 'Not You').

This means that the fundamental distinctions between all the different processes are purely conceptual, and so, do not ACTUALLY exist in any way at all. Therefore, the only process that is ACTUALLY occurring is the universe itself.

It's naturally occurring 'shape' is the only shape that ever actually occurs in Reality.
Relinquish
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Relinquish »

HexHammer wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:02 am
Relinquish wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:19 am Firstly, before we get to the mystery, allow me to point out what CAN be known.

In truth, the naturally occurring 'shape' of the causelessly cyclic Universal Process is the only shape that ever actually occurs in Reality.

Because 'Causeless Shapelessness' is ALWAYS completely structureless, ever-changeless and infinitely symmetrical, the 'Causeless Shape' of this Process can ONLY be the structured ever-changing asymmetry that it is.

Fundamentally, ALL apparent 'things' and 'events' (including 'ourselves') are actually 'features' of this structured ever-changing asymmetry.

Now, the mystery...

WHAT this process REALLY is, and the actual reason WHY it is occurring at all (and why the illusion of separateness and duality EVER arises within the 'experience' of all sufficiently complex features of the process) is absolutely unknowable...

...and yet, Here It IS...

...Here You ARE...
Sure sounds like some skitzo ravings!! :shock:
In what way?
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Relinquish wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:45 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:36 pm
Relinquish wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:19 am Firstly, before we get to the mystery, allow me to point out what CAN be known.

In truth, the naturally occurring 'shape' of the causelessly cyclic Universal Process is the only shape that ever actually occurs in Reality.
...
What drugs are you on?
What about the sentences of mine that you have quoted here suggest that I might be on any drugs?

You said...
naturally occurring 'shape' of the causelessly cyclic Universal Process is the only shape that ever actually occurs in Reality.


A word of advice. 1) If you are trying to describe something you might like to consider a lexicon that is already in common use.
2) Try not to confuse the actuality of a thing, the reality of a thing, and the perception of a thing; which it seems if what you are doing.


i rest my case.
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Dontaskme
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

Relinquish wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:29 pm
Luckily, there's no possibility of the ultimate mystery (about the true nature of Reality) ever being actually solved.

Many people, myself included, have imagined that they have solved this mystery. However, I recently realized that to mentally superimpose ANY concept over Reality is to effectively obscure Reality from view. This realization eventually dissolves the question.
Well said.

Trying to outrun the happening is like trying to jump over our own shadow. There will come a realisation that the shadow just jumps right along side with you. And what would jumping ahead solve anyway ? Jumping ahead to find nothing has happened yet :shock:

Lets rest our case right here. :wink: :lol:

.
Relinquish
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Relinquish »

Hobbes' Choice wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:38 am
Relinquish wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:45 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:36 pm

...
What drugs are you on?
What about the sentences of mine that you have quoted here suggest that I might be on any drugs?

You said...
naturally occurring 'shape' of the causelessly cyclic Universal Process is the only shape that ever actually occurs in Reality.


A word of advice. 1) If you are trying to describe something you might like to consider a lexicon that is already in common use.
2) Try not to confuse the actuality of a thing, the reality of a thing, and the perception of a thing; which it seems if what you are doing.


i rest my case.
I'm actually saying that, fundamentally, there are no 'things' in Reality. There isn't even the perception of things. There is the perception of a belief that what is perceived is a vast collection of different things.

This 'belief' is an arbitrarily defined, impermanent 'feature' of this structured ever-changing asymmetry commonly known as the universe.

We don't actually know what this is.
Relinquish
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Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Relinquish »

My current definition of a 'thing' is any particular process that 'has it's own' reality.

In truth, all particular processes are actually arbitrarily delineated, impermanent 'features' of the structured ever-changing asymmetry, and therefore, none of them can EVER 'have their own' reality.

There are no actual 'particular processes'.

As such, there are no actual 'things'.
Last edited by Relinquish on Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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