The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

So what's really going on?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

ken wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:32 pm
If dontaskme is NOT here to discuss things and find agreement, then what dontaskme is really here is becoming more obvious all the time. What dontaskme says is the Truth and right, and any thing that does NOT agree with this is false and bullshit. Is this right dontaskme?


How is ''Truth and right'' going to be proved to exist?

And by whom?

.

Who is agreeing or disagreeing?

And who is going to prove what is agreeable or disagreeable as to being what is ''Truth and right'' ?

Who will prove that what another person says is right or wrong ? how would that person who claims to be telling the Truth and right be known to another person as to whether the claim is false or true?

Supposing someone says I KNOW TRUTH...how is someone else going to prove what they are saying is Truth and right?

How is someone going to disprove someone else what that someone else them self know to be Truth and right?

.
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

ken wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:27 pmWhile you continue to insist the the immediate KNOWING is unknown, but you continue to resist providing any evidence that this is actually the case, does NOT help the one labeled 'dontaskme', whatever that 'dontaskme' may actually be, because according to dontaskme, 'dontaskme' is NOT even a person. To dontaskme people do NOT even exist.
The immediate knowing is obvious in the living organism, it is the knowing that knows it is alive and breathing. Knowing KNOWS how to live and how to die.

That knowing is not known by another knowing, there is no other knowing. KNOWING IS one with the knowing, one without a second.

knowing IS not known by dontaskme, -- dontaskme is already known as a concept of KNOWING. Concepts don't know anything, concepts are KNOWN BY THE ONLY KNOWING THERE IS AND THAT IS CONSCIOUSNESS.

Dontaskme does not know what is consciousness. Dontaskme is CONSCIOUSNESS.

I AM knowing consciousness, but I do not know what this knowing consciousness is...for I would have to be outside of it looking in, or inside of it looking out to know that.

And as far as I know, I have never been able to step outside or step inside my own consciousness to get a peek at what IS this consciousness.

.
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

ken wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:36 am
To jttcom also, How would all humans be happy if they dropped their attachment to the desire to carry on living?

Either they will not be alive, and thus would neither be happy nor sad no any thing else for that matter. Or, they would be alive but not having a desire to be alive, so how would they be happy in this situation?
No thing ever died, a thing is an idea, an idea has no reality, there is no living tissue in a concept. Living tissue is the only thing that's alive, and it's only alive because the concept alive informs. No thing is either alive or dead.

But for the assumed human entity ... :arrow:


Only the feeling of ever present death makes people wise. The simple wisdom that is dwelling within death – is the fact that we are impermanent. Actually nothing is permanent, except the death itself. The only stable and serious thing in everyone’s life.

It must be obvious... that there is a contradiction in wanting to be perfectly secure in a universe whose very nature is momentariness and fluidity.

.
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

ken wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:13 amSo, underneath the mask that you are exposing now lies the opposite face also, right?

Yes.

In spacetime cause and effect duality the opposite it also true.

But what you truly ARE is beyond that. Beyond the illusion of your dual nature is real timeless nondual awareness, watching your imagined dream self experience.

.
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

ken wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:57 pm
To learn how to express better and much more succinctly.

Is just repeating clarifying questions the very best dontaskme can do in answering clarifying questions.

Dismissing answering questions wholeheartedly is NOT doing dontskme any favors.
Dontaskme can only offer what dontaskme knows from experience. I can only offer clarification from my own experience, so that will often repeat obviously. I cannot clarify anything you have experienced as my own experience, as obviously that has not been my experience.

My clarifications that I give can never satisfy what it is you want clarifying, because our life experiences are different.

So you can go on asking for clarifications until you are blue in the face, but you are never going to get what you are asking for, neither are you ever going to be satisfied with the clarifications even if they are given to you. You have already proved this time and time again, because every time you ask for a clarification and one is given, you then ask for another clarification to clarify the clarification given, and then you keep on doing this over and over and over again, and again and again...another and another and another .....until no one is ever any the wiser, or any better at communicating this what ever this is we are communicating...

.
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

PauloL wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:29 pm .




I think we're ignoring undeservedly Hegel's pearls here, which can be of great, if not ultimate, help.

Nach Hegel:

The word ‘reality’ is used to mean that something behaves conformably to its essential characteristic or notion. For example, we use the expression: ‘This is a real man’. Here the term does not merely mean outward and immediate existence: but rather that some existence agrees with its notion. In this sense, reality is not distinct from ideality.



.
Dontaskme agrees with Hegel.
User avatar
PauloL
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:12 pm
Location: Lisbon, Portugal.

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by PauloL »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:40 pm Dontaskme agrees with Hegel.
x.......................................................................................................................x




... Hegel is quite crystal clear and irrefutable.

... Oftentimes people enter warm discussions for the sole reason that they didn't read Hegel first.

... Reality is but Ideality. Period.




x.......................................................................................................................x
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 6604
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Lacewing »

ken wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:14 am.../...
From my perspective, Ken, you make too many assumptions about me and others, and I'm not interested in wading through and untangling that. It's your stuff.

It also appears to me that you are not as honest and clear and aware as you present yourself to be, by the way you spin your communication to dismantle the meaning of what others say, while redefining to patch the holes in what you say. At this point you'll probably ask me to show you examples of where you've done that, which is ridiculous because you'll do more of the same with whatever I show you. This has been pointed out to you before -- it's not new.

Saying that my religious upbringing is why I am resistant to the concept of "one way", shows the limitation of your own thinking. People are inclined to identify "one way" which matches their OWN view for anything at all... because they want to be "right". Religion is just one example of that. I continually question ideas of "one way" because I see that as limiting (and potentially ego-feeding) when there is a whole Universe of options and paths.

I realize it really pisses people off sometimes when I question/challenge their idea of "one way". The ferocity ( :) ) I use is proportionate to their adamance and self-glorification expressed in relation to other people and ideas. As a result of many, many years of questioning the limitations of my own ideas/needs/rightness/etc., I am more naturally inclined to dismiss the notion of there being "one way" for anything -- and I see possibilities and perfection ALREADY everywhere -- yes, even in the entire dance of claiming or challenging "one way".

However, perfection doesn't always feel fun. :) And, sorry Ken, (for me) talking with you feels like getting twisted up in your convoluted vortex... and I'm ready for a break from such things again.
Storm7723
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:56 am

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Storm7723 »

ken wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:30 am
surreptitious57 wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:24 am Existence has to exist infinitely because non existence cannot but not every thing that does exist however is infinite
In fact nothing infinite is known to exist other than existence itself. Existence is not an object or a thing but a state
To Me also this is very true.

EVERY thing, besides the Universe, Itself, or ALL-THERE-IS, comes into and out of existence. Or in other words is born, lives or exists for a while, then dies or disappears. ALL things, besides the Universe, appear, and then disappear. But they actually do not come from no where nor from some where else, nor do they go any where else either. They all just change in shape and form. ALL things are just a part of the One (Universe) thing, which Itself IS constantly-changing in shape and form. This is just what IS.

EVERY thing exists within, or is a part of, the Universe. Even heaven and hell are within the Universe, and just as you alluded to they are not an object but a state.

There is NO thing beyond, outside of, above, or any where else besides within, or a part of, ALL-THERE-IS, which is the Universe, Itself. Obviously because light diminishes over distance, there is therefore no way to see what is past a certain point. But with the progression of human technology so to do telescopes get bigger and better, and with that comes being able to see further, and with that ability comes the discovery that the Universe is always appearing bigger than previously 'thought'. When this is written human beings had come to realization that they can only see a part of the Universe and so named it - the observable universe. But still most with the illusion that the Universe is finite and/or expanding. But until I am proven wrong the Universe is infinite and eternal. Contrary to popular belief there is NO thing outside of the Universe, which could have created the Universe. The ONLY thing that Created the Universe IS the Universe, Itself. It is Creating, Its Self, NOW, always has and always will.

The Universe, Itself, is also, contrary to popular, NOT expanding. What might appear to be happening is sometimes NOT actually happening. From earth to some human beings looking out it appears to them the Universe is expanding and so that is what they say is happening. But if those same people where at that distance out from earth where the Universe appears to expanding and they looked back at the same distance as the earth is they would say the same thing. But obviously from things close to earth they are not expanding, and especially at the rate some human beings say expansion is happening. The illusion caused is partly from basic optic illusion but mostly from viewing things based on prior inaccurate knowledge. There was NO beginning of the Universe. The Universe was NOT created at one definitive moment. But because there is only a constant flow of NOW, from that sense what happens NOW is the beginning for the rest of the Universe, or what happens NOW Creates the "future". Basing the way you look at things from the knowledge that EVERYTHING was created as some prior point distorts what IS.

For EVERY thing to be created at least two things prior were needed. And, these two things have to interact to cause, or create, some thing new. This happens for ALL things, even including the Universe, Itself. Although the Universe is One thing, It is still made up of at least two things. The Universe at Its most basic and fundamental level can not NOT exist with the two things of physical matter and no thing. An infinite no thing would literally be nothing, and, an infinite compression of matter, with out no thing around it or in between it, would be a fixed, solid of unchangeable ability. Therefore, although it would be some thing, it would exist as, and thus is about as useless as, nothing. The Universe exists because of the two things, and, the Universe could NOT exist without the two. So, for absolutely EVERY thing there must be two things existing. And, even if at any moment of NOW there was only one piece of infinite compression of matter, with a space or no thing surrounding it, then that was just how the Universe was in that moment of NOW. The shape and form of the Universe at any given moment of NOW just IS how It is.
So I know I'm a little late to this conversation but this was interesting to me. You say that the universe was never really created but is eternal, so are you disagreeing with the big bang theory then? Excuse my ability to ask the obvious I'm just curious as to what you'll say.
surreptitious57
Posts: 4257
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by surreptitious57 »

ken wrote:
What is happening right now IS really happening but what is really happening right now is NOT reality
because reality relates to what is really wanted or desired NOT what is really happening right now
You have got that entirely wrong since what is happening right now is reality because that is how it is defined
Reality literally is what is. And so subjective interpretation of what is wanted or desired does not change this
What is wanted or desired is not reality but idealism or utopia until it is achieved and then it becomes reality
surreptitious57
Posts: 4257
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by surreptitious57 »

Storm wrote:
You say that the universe was never really created but is eternal so are you disagreeing with the big bang theory then
The Universe is ALL THERE IS and so is eternal but this universe is not necessarily all of that just some of it. It is just local cosmic expansion and
the Big Bang was the beginning of it. But it does not mean there was nothing before it even though this is currently as far back as physics can go
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

surreptitious57 wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:48 am
Storm wrote:
You say that the universe was never really created but is eternal so are you disagreeing with the big bang theory then
The Universe is ALL THERE IS and so is eternal but this universe is not necessarily all of that just some of it. It is just local cosmic expansion and
the Big Bang was the beginning of it. But it does not mean there was nothing before it even though this is currently as far back as physics can go
Also, the idea there was a Big Bang explosion implies a causer...and since there is no actual recorded data on what the causer could be leads to never ending questions that lead nowhere...life is a mystery, and Ken will just have to accept that. That Ken denies it's a mystery by claiming to know what the SELF is ..is a misnomer... he's just making it all up like the rest of us, in truth, no individual person knows anything, and yet everything is known, but not by I

Real Knowing is tacit...it's a fiction.

.
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by Dontaskme »

Reality is silent presence, prior to mind activity appearing within silent presence itself, so nothing really prior, rather, mind is intertwined with it's twin counterpart, aka silent nothingness.

Reality is has no quality or attribute, all attributes and qualities are mind activity, a movement within stillness. Thought is the movement within stillness, appearing as interpretations inferred,therefore, mind is a fiction appearing in real silent presence.



.

Nothingness is known in relation/association to something. Something is, and cannot be nothingness, therefore, nothingness is but a sleep until it's time to awaken from the sleep.

Death and Life are the same state, differing in appearance only..aka sleep/awake.

From this we can see that nothing is asleep or awake. That's reality.

.
surreptitious57
Posts: 4257
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by surreptitious57 »

Realty is existence. It is simply what is. Regardless of whether or not there are minds to interpret it. There is life and death within
it but neither apply to reality itself since it is neither dead or alive. Many times humans have interpreted it by claiming that it was
created by God and / or is God. But these are concepts that are not known to exist outside of human imagination. Whereas reality
is everywhere. That is all that can definitely be said to be true so it is all one does say. Anything else is either speculative or false
ken
Posts: 2075
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: The unsolvable mystery of Reality Itself

Post by ken »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:38 pm
ken wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:32 pm
If dontaskme is NOT here to discuss things and find agreement, then what dontaskme is really here is becoming more obvious all the time. What dontaskme says is the Truth and right, and any thing that does NOT agree with this is false and bullshit. Is this right dontaskme?


How is ''Truth and right'' going to be proved to exist?
dontaskme might like to explain HOW dontaskme thinks that they could ever prove that what they say is the Truth, and right, that is some things will NEVER be known?

The answer to your question here is, very easy indeed.

What is the Truth and what is right IS proved to exist if and when EVERY one is in agreement.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:38 pmAnd by whom?
EVERY One, which is the collective of EVERY thing.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:38 pmWho is agreeing or disagreeing?
Human beings, obviously.

Do you know of any other 'who' that could agree or disagree?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:38 pmAnd who is going to prove what is agreeable or disagreeable as to being what is ''Truth and right'' ?
EVERY one as One, which is the pure One that always KNOWS.

Remember this is NOT about finding what to agree or disagree on. What I have been saying is in relation to what IT is that is agreed or disagreed on. Again, this is depended upon EVERY one as the united One.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:38 pmWho will prove that what another person says is right or wrong ?
I HOPE I NEVER have to repeat this to you again. EVERY one WILL PROVE that what another person says is right or wrong. When EVERY one is in agreement, then there is NO one disagreeing. When EVERY one is united together in agreement, then they become One. And, THAT what IS in agreement, IS proven right or wrong by that one and ONLY One. THAT IS who will prove this, and prove ALL things, as a matter of fact. When there is ONLY One, then there is NO one else existing. Obviously if there is no one else existing, then there could NOT nor NEVER be any one to disagree nor disprove. When EVERY thing is existing as One, then that is the One who will prove and BE the proof.

When I have been saying EVERY, you do realize what that is in relation to right?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:38 pm how would that person who claims to be telling the Truth and right be known to another person as to whether the claim is false or true?
That is very easy indeed. Look at your own claims that you say are the Truth, and right. Those claims, which are actually false and wrong can be very easily seen AND those claims that are actually true and right can also be just as easily seen.

Remember it is 'you', the person labeled dontaskme, who is continually trying to tell every one else here that dontaskme KNOWS what is the Truth, and right, especially in regards to what can be known and/or not known.

What dontaskme claims, is not always necessarily so, and can be very easily be seen to be false or true.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:38 pmSupposing someone says I KNOW TRUTH...how is someone else going to prove what they are saying is Truth and right?
Very easily indeed.

They remain OPEN to what IS actually being said, ask clarifying questions, challenge that, if necessary, and THEN use their own past experiences to verify what IS actually true and right.

By your lack of answering clarifying questions can be just the very first step, in many, in proving how what dontaskme says they KNOW is Truth is in fact very false and wrong indeed.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:38 pm How is someone going to disprove someone else what that someone else them self know to be Truth and right?

.
AGAIN, ONLY what is agreed upon by EVERY one can the real Truth be known. What IS the Truth, and right, IS KNOWN by EVERY thing united as One. What one individual self "know" to be Truth, and right, can be very easily disproved. If that is NOT in agreement with ALL things then it is just about proven false and wrong instantly. I used the words 'just about' because some times obviously when ALL people are in agreement but they are believing in that thing, then this affects their ability to look at and see the real Truth. Even when only one knows that Truth and is trying to share It.

There is NO use in even trying to prove or disprove them self nor another. If what one person knows to be the Truth, only then they already KNOW that EVERY one else will be in agreement any way.

Coming together and finding what IT is that IS in agreement, or not in agreement, proves the Truth and what IS right, by Itself. This agreement by EVERY one is HOW the Truth is KNOWN to be right.

If and when dontaskme STOPS looking from, and asking questions from preconceptions, assumptions, and beliefs, ONLY THEN will dontaskme be able to see what IS actually being said here.

dontaskme's presumptive questioning will NEVER help them to learn and understand more.
Post Reply